Where did this whole crazy journey start? My dad wanted me to actually skip my school graduation because there was two competitions that I had a chance to ride to qualify into Crank Works that year. Mm-hmm. You need to give yourself two chances. He's like, who cares about the school graduation? You know?

I was like, dude, like I love that. But school graduation happens like once in a lifetime. Nikolai Kin is a slopestyle legend and one of the most energetic personalities in mountain biking. He started in BMX before switching to MTB. In 2013, he exploded onto the scene landing multiple worlds firsts, competing at Rampage and winning the infamous triple crown of Crank works in 2018.

Recently, Nikolai has dabbled in commentary, but he is still going full send and always a threat for the win. It's more one sided, like you're saying. I think it's a more. DMX hate towards mountain biking. Then the other way around, talk to me about this contract, or talk to me about this prize money from this or that, or like how we feel the next day when we see Emil taking off to not tail whipp, opposite tail whipp, this drop that we just said, no amount of money would ever convince us to do it.

Those are really the moments that, uh, that I live for in slopestyle that's like stepped aside more than Brett at like a really gnarly era where he was really hard to repeat. Yeah. What's your feeling on, on that and like how things have been going in terms of like, you know, being rewarded money-wise for events where that slopestyle, rampage, whatever the risk versus reward topic is One that, uh, is tough because the, like with this sport especially the risk versus reward is absolutely does not line up.


Dude, thanks so much for coming on, man. Um, appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, of course, man. Sorry, it's hard to track me down. Busy, busy, but uh, still we finally out here and, uh, doing this. Yeah, man, it's, uh, you've got an insane schedule. When I see like you all literally all over the place like Europe, the us, Canada, it's like from event to event, like maybe you can take us back.

Like where did this whole crazy journey start, like. Because I believe you, you started in BMX, right? Yeah. This, this journey that I've been on and blessed to be on for so incredibly long, started when I was a kid, almost started before I can remember. You know, I got on a bike before age five, I feel like, but then I really started riding at age five, you know, and that's.

I'm 29 now, turning 30 at the end of this year. So that's like almost before of my memory, you know? So like rival stuff is kinda like, almost like ingrained inly. 'cause I've been doing it since I was such a young kid, you know? And like, like you said, I started on BMX, I was a tiny little kid. My dad and I got bikes.

I was on a little 16, only to a couple years before my dad was like, yo, I cannot keep up with you. I cannot be hidden more like I'm tapping out. But he was like the most insane supporter and coach always. So yeah, he started instantly putting me into competitions at like age seven. I think already I was competing in, in free, in like freestyle or in, in racing or something like that?

No, um, no racing at all for me. Uh Okay. Which is kind of unique in a way, I guess because there racing was always super big in BMX and we were going to woodwork camp and I feel like. There was more attention, uh, moving towards like X Games due tour type of stuff. But they still had a massive race track and like BMX racing was just so competitive and everything.

But, uh, for some reason, even though my dad is super competitive and he comes from balon and very competitive racing sports from back in Russia, he never tried to push the racing. And, uh, him and I were always more pumped on the flying and uh mm-hmm. Style aspect of everything. So besides like getting on the racetrack there at Woodward camp a couple times to mess around, I never raced at all competing wise.

So it was always straight into skate park competitions, all skate park at first. Um, and then as I got, uh, a little bigger with a little more power, then he started going into like dirt competitions 'cause mm-hmm. Their jumps are, are kind of gnarly or more consequential. Skate park. You can kind of ride it how you, how you want, you know?

Yeah. Crazy. Okay. So that's interesting. With seven, I didn't even know that you could compete in a, in like a freestyle comp or a, or a skate park comp at seven years old. I mean, I was definitely, uh. It was definitely a unique specimen back then because I was so young. And also it was an interesting tactic by my father.

Maybe it was a way to humble me, but I was so young, like, like something from age seven, but like all the way till, till I basically went into professional contests. He never wanted to put me in the young kids' category because I don't know, ly he didn't wanna see me win too easily, and he wanted to see me push my level.

So whatever contest we would go to, he would just throw me in the highest level. And it was like, not the people, but like, I guess the best rider there. And that's different because, um, I feel like parents are like, you know, you wanna see the kid win, you wanna see the kid be motivated to like keep winning.

But my dad's like, no, if you get last, you get last. But like, you gotta know what it's like to mm-hmm. Even the competition with the best riders there on that day. So I feel like it instilled this kind of humbleness in me, like I was the best. 7, 8, 9, 10-year-old in the park. But that doesn't matter when you're trying to compete in those bigger classes.

Mm-hmm. So yeah, thinking back on that, it's definitely unique that my dad was throwing me in there like that. But, uh, definitely built like this competitive character within me and, um, it's hard for me to even remember those first competitions. Like I, I watch back and I see videos and, uh, I mean, same little guy shredding around.

But yeah, those, uh, those are like almost past my memory 'cause I was such a kid, you know, it's Yeah, crazy. Yeah, that, I mean, I guess it's, I mean it's like that with a lot of sports, whether, you know, you see like Tiger Woods started playing golf when he was like three or four years old or whatever it was, you know?

So I think it doesn't make a difference when you start that young. And when did you make the switch to, to mountain biking. How old were you and, and why actually did you make the switch? So I kind of did both BMX and mountain bike for a few years there because I was doing a lot of skate park competitions as I was growing up.

Like I was saying. But then as I started getting older and moving into like dirt competitions and riding shows of masses of dirt, it was kind of like less opportunities in BMX, um, because it seemed like the sport was focused on things like street and there was a couple massive competitions per year, X games, due tours, things like that.

But in terms of like overall opportunity, especially with dirt competitions, there weren't so many. And like I said, I was, I was riding masses of dirt and there was legends riding masses of dirt and very Ladi, Yana Granier, Martin Burg, Sam Reynolds, guys that like I could look at while riding the show with them and be like, yo, these guys are unreal.

And then I would go home and I would watch like the old crank works and stuff and be like, these guys are shredding. But I was still a bit young. And um, yeah, one year I kind of just started talking to Martin Soderstrom about it and Martin fully helped me. Uh, he. Took it to specialize. The specialized guy at the time was Jeff Rogers and they set me up with a bike and just put me on my, my path.

And I, uh, started just trying to learn all of those BMX tricks on mountain bike. I'm blessed to have Highland Mountain near me Island Mountains, about an hour and a half from home. And I was just spending so much time there in the indoor, in the slopestyle course and the dirt jumps. I was just like learning how to transfer all these BMX skill mm-hmm.

To the mountain bike. But then in these months I was still doing some BMX competitions and like for me it was hard to like not ride BMX anymore. 'cause it's like where I came from, it's like, yeah, my whole childhood, like, like I'm telling you, before I can even remember, I was on a BMX bike, so I was like, what?

Like all male bike now, like, we're not gonna ride BMX anymore. Like. Like, fuck, like this doesn't seem right, but it was like such a similar vibe where I was still on two wheels. I was still doing a lot of the same tricks. I was still progressing in the same fashion. I was loving things for the same reasons, whether it was flipping or flying or hanging with the boys, like I was all like the same love and passion that I had.

So that made it kind of easier for me to be like, you know what? A lot of opportunities here in mountain bike, a lot of competitions for me to go out there and try to, uh, prove what I can do. And, uh, my last competitions in BMX were actually awesome. I, I, uh, I won the, the BMX worlds in Cologne. I was 17. I won a SA triples in Miami against some mm-hmm.

Big name riders. So, so it wasn't so bad, but there was just so many more competitions in mountain bike and mm-hmm. Like I was saying, I was blessed to have Martin Soderstrom behind me, talent specialized. This guy is, next up, this guy is next up, support him and not having that support to, uh, just take a shot at the, the career really.

So, um, yeah, around like, uh, those years where I was graduating high school, so I guess 16, 17, 18 in that range is where all of these, uh, changes were going on. And was there kind of a, a point where you kind of had a re realization where you were like, okay, like I can do this or I can actually make a living at this?

Or did it kind of just like slowly progress? Well, it. It was always the dream since I was young, because I was fortunate to have those inspirational characters. Like I was saying at Woodwork, I was seeing the best guys in the world and like, see at Masses of Dirt, I was seeing the best guys in the world.

So I was so young and I just had all these amazing idols and all this inspiration. So deep down I always had the dream of like riding full-time, being like a pro rider, a top level rider. I remember when I was super young, I wrote like a little goal that my goal was like to win X games before graduating high school and stuff, like, things kind of changed path.

But you know, like even riding something like that, like shows me that I had this like further dream mm-hmm. Of, uh, of fully being pro rider. But I think the realization, uh, didn't come until like things really happened because my dad, he was a, he was a super good coach and everything, but he was also super strict on school.

Okay. He would take me outta school, but like if I go outta school, like I have to do all the homework and all this stuff on the plane. I have to get back and do the tests and I have to get good grades. Or he's like on, he's like, you know, this career is not gonna last forever. Like you have to educate your brain now.

Mm-hmm. So I was convinced that him specifically, because my mom is very supportive overall, she's less like strict, she's more supportive. Whereas my dad is like strict. He's like no excuses type of type of, uh, energy. You know? I was just convinced that they would want me to go to university. Mm-hmm.

Because pretty much 99% of the kids that I went to high school with go to university. Yeah. So that's what like, seemed like it was all built for. So I was like, yeah, like I'm riding doing these contests. I'm getting taken outta school, but like I think that I'm just gonna have to go college. And basically when I graduated high school, my dad was like, yo, you have this year now to go compete and like see what you can do.

Like, no way. I can't believe do this. And um, it's actually crazy 'cause my dad wanted me to. Actually skip my school graduation because there was two competitions that I had a chance to ride to qualify into Crank Works that year. Mm-hmm. You need to give yourself two chances. He's like, he's like, who cares about the school graduation?

And I was, I was like, dude, like, I love that. But school graduation happens like once in a lifetime, you know? Mm-hmm. And I somehow had those values to be like, you know what, no, I'm not skipping it. I go, so I went to the school graduation, I walked the stage with my friends, was awesome. And then I gave myself one chance.

It was 26 tricks in Leo gang. I wish that still existed. 'cause we had 26 tricks and then the world's cut back to back that weekend was electric. Yeah, it was sick. So like, God, man, I miss it a lot, but I went over there. I basically had one chance I had to ride Amazing in that competition to qualify into Crank Works.

You know, it was a lot of pressure and there was a lot of big name riders there. And luckily I was able to win that event. And then that's when I kind of realized, like I was, like I said, it's basically like I was already there, you know, I had won night of that, which means I was in for Crank Works and then I was like, damn.

Like I, I really trusted in myself. I gave myself this one chance. I came out here, I did this, and now I'm in, and then my pops like, you did it. You know? So it was just like. Kind of like, uh, didn't, didn't think I was even gonna have the opportunity. And then, uh, it happened and I won. And, uh, yeah, things went from there.

So, um, so yeah. Crazy to think about. So wild that, what year was that exactly? I think it's 2014. Okay. I, because I would've been there as well. Uh, 'cause I was racing the World Cup, uh, the downhill. So yeah, I've been, I live in Munich now, but, uh, I mean, I've been to the gang so many times over the, over the last years.

Um, so That's funny. That really at the same time. That's crazy. But it's interesting that you made this switch, like from, from BMX to mountain bike and like, because I feel like there's, I, I mean, when I was younger, I also wrote a bit of bmx, I mean, not, not a bit, bit of racing and stuff like that before I switched to mountain bike, but there's kind of a lot of, I get the feeling that the BMXs don't really like the mountain bikers, so I, I don't know why exactly.

And yeah, especially with like dirt jumps and stuff like that, you rock up on a mountain bike, like sometimes you feel like you're gonna get hit by a spade. Yeah, I mean there definitely is a bit of that dynamic and I, I don't really know why it happens because like I said, we have a lot of the same love and passion, like whether it's, or a mountain bike rider, we, we love riding on two wheels, being out with the homies, like it's a lot of the same passions, but it does lead to a lot of clash.

But I think it's more one sided, like you're saying. I think it's a more BMX hate towards mountain biking than the other way around. Yeah. But like, honestly, at the, at the higher levels, like this year at Swatch nines, we had someone like the legends of BMX come over. They were humble, they were shredding, they were like asking.

Guys had to ride some of the slow features, super stoked when they could do it on their reckless pm x. We're like, you look crazy for sending on the x on one of these bikes. Come on. But like, uh, that dynamic was good 'cause it was like, uh, everyone was kind of appreciating each other's craft and skillset and the fact that everybody humbly in that same location.

We even had some like world class skateboarders there too, and everybody was just like, uh, just kind of like I said, appreciating how like insane each other are. So. Mm-hmm. That was really cool to see rather than like, you know, that animosity of like, oh, these guys think they're sick. Oh, these guys think they're sick.

That would, that would be super wack. You know, like it's way more fun to have that like, teamwork dynamic vibe of like, no egos in play and everybody just like impressed by, by each other, you know? So, uh, so yeah, the hate's definitely there, but there's some, some good moments where it gets overshadowed and like that from everyone.

Yeah, it's, it's, uh, it kind of baffles me sometimes. I'm like, I don't really get it because we all kind of doing the same thing. I mean, okay, it's different bikes and slightly different, you know, slightly different. But I mean, it's relatively the same. We all love riding bikes at the end of the day, but, um, just like politics in a lot of, a lot of times, like, and just kind of wondering like, what the hell, like, what difference does it make?

You know. But yeah, I guess that's, maybe it's changing a bit for the bit. I think also in the beginning, maybe mountain biking was seen as like this kind of like ugly stepchild kind of thing. 'cause BMX was kind of core. Yeah. But I feel like mountain biking's come a long way over the last, last few years.

Uh, thanks to guys like you and Emil and, uh, you know, Brandon and everything. So I think that, I don't know if you, you've like seen any of this stuff online, but it seems like the B like the BMXers sometimes, not every time, but they sometimes even have a little bit of animosity towards each other and the different disciplines that they do, riders are like.

He's Olympic guys and then the Olympic director. Come on. Like we're, we're like trying Yeah. Legendary shit here. It's like they don't appreciate each other's craft. And I feel like in mountain bike it doesn't exist. Like there's, I don't, I feel like the World's Cup riders are not, like the free ride guys are bullshit.

Like, and then nothing. Yeah, a slope. Guys are not, like, the racers are so boring. Like I feel like we're just like appreciating each other's different skill sets and like the fact that we're different people, but there's less like. Animosity there. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And on that, on the, on the B-M-X-M-T-B thing, like obviously you've done, you've done both.

Um, I would say, I don't know if you were, would've considered yourself a pro at BMX about, in terms of like earning a living because you, I guess you were pretty young at that point, but like from your, what you can tell now, do you think it's easier to make it as a, as a pro slopestyle rider or a pro BMX rider?

Well, slopes slopestyle now is a difficult thing to make it into. Mm-hmm. I feel like when I was coming into slopestyle. There was like those big competitions, even the biggest ones, the first couple riders are guys that like, have just barely made it in there, you know? And like yeah, kind of like really like feeling their way out and, and things like that.

And now with this level of slope style is so heavy, every rider can do a winning run if it's the right day and the right course. Every rider has a trading compound back home that they've put mm-hmm. 20 and time into and riders ride together and everyone goes in their own unique skillset. Like some guys are insane with switch moves.

Some riders, like I prefer to do more banger style moves. Some guys are like Max F Fredrickson style tech wizards, triple combos on every jump. It's like so difficult to like find a skillset and run with it and then make it to the top level, but that's like just slope style and that's how the sport has progressed.

You, you're asking like slopestyle versus BMX. I think like if you go like mountain bike versus BMX, it's a similar debate. 'cause uh, 'cause in BMX, like there's a few different avenues you can take. You can be more video part guy, you can be full contest guy. Mm-hmm. Social media guy and I feel like that goes to the mountain bike world too.

I'm saying guy, but the, like the ladies are riding unbelievably too now Mix and in mountain bike and progressing and like, uh, like really shifting up the market and like all things like that. So I just feel like maybe over the years in mountain bike there's been like more opportunity. I don't know, maybe 'cause there's more companies or Yeah, more places to ride mountain bike.

You think about all the fig mountains all over Europe. Like more people watching maybe because like, I don't know, you can have a family that every single one rides mountain bike. Like from the tiny little, yeah. Maybe to the, to the grandma and grandpa. Whereas BMXI feel like, um, definitely like more youth and more like those elite years where you're at your peak physical state.

But like that's hard on the body. BMX is hard on the body. Yeah. No tension. They send it like you're saying core. So. I don't know. Um, maybe it's just a larger, massive opportunity, which then allows for more people to kind of pursue making. Yeah. You know? Um, but, but everyone has their own path. I come from BMX Mountain Bike.

Some people are the other way around. Some people go Moto. It's like everyone has their, has their own story and, uh, they can find their way and find a way to make a living. Then, you know, you think there's more money in the mountain biking than, than BMX in terms of the industry. In terms of like what?

Like what the top riders are gonna get paid. You know, if you are winning, winning X Games gold, for example, versus winning cranks, like in terms of like sponsorships, stuff like that. I don't know those X Games numbers, but I don't think they're bad. I think it's very comparable for the top riders. Like if we're talking like a an R Willie that goes and he gets three gold medals in one weekend versus an ML who wins every slope comp over the course of the year.

Like those top dogs are definitely making a huge amount, I don't know, like what it is, head to head. Same with the podium guys. If you're on the podium, all every contest and BMX versus if you're on the podium all year, every year in the mountain bike. I think those numbers are comparable, but I don't know.

Honestly, it's interesting in our industries, like you have to be really close with the homie to talk about, yeah. Go around and say how much this company pay you, how much this company pay you. Like sometimes us boys have those private combos, like mm-hmm. You're really close to the rider of like, yo, talking about this deal.

Talk to me about this contract, or Talk to me about this prize money from this or that, or like, but I feel like it's, it's rare. Whereas in the other sports, like I follow American sports super heavily. As you can see, I'm double branded here. Yeah. Like they, that's like one of the main things they talk about.

Yeah. They get all the details of every contract. Like maybe not the endorsement ones, but at least the ones from the team. I just feel like that's so heavily in the public, so everyone can say, baseball's this hockey is this, football's this, soccer's this. Like all those numbers are so comparable. Whereas like you asked me and I've been in both industries and I like simply like cannot even compare the numbers.

Yeah. We don't know. Like that stuff's not blasted out to the public. So that I think that's interesting. Um, like what do you think about that? I think that's a huge, yeah, I mean that's a huge issue. I mean, whether it's downhill racing or, or cross country slope style, big mountain riding, whatever, like no one knows what everyone is earning unless you, you know, literally mates with a guy and, and chat to them.

But like, yeah, I think, I think it's so weird because everyone's kind of like, hush hush and like, no, like, are they, maybe even you hear rumors like maybe they're getting that or, but like, as you said, like in other sports, big sports, um, you know, mainstream sports like soccer, uh, football, basketball, everyone knows exactly what everyone's earning.

So it makes it super easy to go to a, an to go to a brand if you've got a deal and it's like, sweet, he's getting x I'm doing as good or better, so I gotta be getting X as well, you know? Um, and yeah, I don't, I dunno why that is in, in mountain bike. I literally think it's because it gives the companies. The industry more control over the market.

Mm-hmm. Like you're saying, if they come out with these salaries, they come out with these contracts, then that's the market. And if you want a rider that caliber that has these numbers or this fault or this whatever, then you have to pay them that money or like, you know what I mean? Whereas when people don't know the market, the companies can come with, I don't know if they lie about it or if they're truthful about, we don't have this budget, we have this, we don't have that.

It's like, it gives the industry and the company so much power over the riders because of that lack of knowledge. Yeah. Well, uh, I, I mean, I don't, I'm not sure if the, like, I don't, I don't think the companies in the industry are doing that on purpose to like, give themselves power, but I think that the final product and the final result is them having a lot of power.

Mm-hmm. And the riders kind of being in a place of either demanding and staying their ground or kind of taking what they can get. And a lot of times, like it's, it's tough because, uh, it's also not a sports team. Like every sports team needs a certain amount of players and like they need to fill the roster and they need to have skills.

Like there's not really that standard in these companies. Like every Yeah. Company like at least in slopestyle. I don't know, maybe it's a little bit different for racing. Tell me after. But it's like not every company needs to have a certain number of riders or they don't need, like there's no need if they want to.

If that fits with their marketing strategy, then great. But it's like less requirements. So you can't like be like, oh, you guys need me. It's kind of like they have the power to be like, you know what, no. Like, what do you, how is it with racing, like with the teams and everything? So I think it, I mean, it's different from from team to team and whether you're a privateer or you're on a big team or not.

But I think in, I mean in general, the, the money's not great. Like, I think no one, no one gets into mountain biking going like, okay, I wanna be a millionaire. But, but I think we all do it for the passion, but, um, I think it's, yeah, I don't know. I think the big question is sometimes whether it's worth the risk for what some guys are doing.

I feel like the, there should be more money for the top guys. Like, 'cause I'm just like, it's insane actually. Like the, the risks that people are taking, whether it's in slopestyle racing or whatever, our rampage, I mean, we just had rampage a couple of months agos. It's just like, it's just like from a, I'm a mountain biker.

You're a mountain biker. You've, you've been there, you've done it. Like, but I think from a person that's outside of the sport that doesn't mountain bike, and they look at it and they're just like, these guys are cooked, like these guys are nuts. And, and then like there's, there, I mean, there is prize money, but it's not.

Massive. Like if you compare it to other sports and then with the risk involved, which is way higher than a lot of other sports, it's um, yeah. How, how do you like Yeah. What's your feeling on, on that and like how things have been going in terms of like, you know, being rewarded money-wise for, for events like where that slopestyle, rampage, whatever, the risk versus reward topic is one that, uh, is tough because the, like with this sport, especially the risk versus reward is absolutely does not line up.

But that, like, the issue is, is that risk versus reward also doesn't decide money in this world. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of people that do a lot of really, really gnarly shit. Just 'cause they want to think about Yeah. Jumpers or clip jumpers, whether it's for a social clip or whatever, they are literally risking pure debt.

Like even some of these park co stunts I see on, yeah. On social. I'm like, it's not for, those things are not for the money. Like it. Like you're risking because it fuels your adrenaline or it fuels your passion to go further. And then that persona is what then gets you those contracts and that money. So like I think for slopestyle and Rampage and mountain biking in general, it's a similar idea where you're trying to build a persona where then people can be inspired by you and be fans of you, and then companies can support you because you're that type of figure.

You know what I mean? Like you don't go out Yeah. In Brooks and say like, I wanna do this insane trick because I wanna win this contest because I wanna make this money. Mm-hmm. It's like you want to do it for the glory of being a champion and then for people then to like see you as this figure that they're, they can't wait to watch you on the screen or things like that.

And then comes the money from being that figure that people root for and stuff. It's not like. Direct risk to reward. It's not like you do the trick, you get the money, you move on. It's, it's a whole, it's a much like broader package. You agree with me on this or no? Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. I mean, obviously unfortunately, we, we don't have the money at this point that the biggest sports do.

So I mean, as I said, we, we all do this for the love of it, but at the same time, it's like when it does become your career, you, you need, at some point you need to make money. 'cause like you need to eat and you need to pay bills. And also be realistic about like the amount of risk you're willing to take for, for being able to support, especially when you get a family and you know, something like that.

But, um, it is just even a lot of people from outside, like my, my wife when I first met her and, and took her to the, to Liang actually, and she was just like, this is insane. Like, what the hell? And like, that was like pretty chills, you know? She was just watching the guys ride down the down track and I was like.

And she's like, why are you doing this? The, the, the guys who win must get so much money. And I was like, well, no, actually, they, they win just about nothing. You know, they rely on sponsorships, but it is, uh, it is a crazy to like, people are not involved. It's like a crazy concept to, to have that much passion for something that you're willing to risk your life for not that much in the, in the bigger scheme of things.

You know, it's, uh, definitely makes us seem like we're twisted. 'cause we almost like live for this risk. It's like, yeah. Oh, you must be making loads of money. Like, nah, like, oh, you must be like famous from the like, nah, like why you threw it. It's like, it kind of, uh, makes it seem super twisted because it's so much risk.

But man, like, uh, so many sports have this risk and like if you're not at the top level pro, like every sport has this risk versus reward issue. But those like big money, top level sports mm-hmm. They have just have crazy money involved. So when you look at that, it's, uh, oh, it's tough. When you're talking about the risk side, obviously you haven't done Rampage now for a few years.

You had that, I remember that huge iconic crash that you had some years ago. So why, first of all, why haven't you done Rampage in recent years and did, yeah. Like that crash for example, did that have ever any impact on you or was it kind of like, eh, like just all good kind of thing? I was just thinking about that last year because, uh, or not last year when I was at Rampage this year.

Because the site of the ladies for this year is the same site that I crashed at. Yeah. So as I'm walking around and going up and looking at this cliff that I fell down. It's really lucky for me that I didn't have serious injuries on that day. I had like a bunch of scrapes on my face. 'cause I was trying to stop myself from falling off the cliff.

I was scraping my face. I didn't have goggles on that day 'cause it was so bright. I had some whiplash in my neck. But I didn't have like any serious injuries. I had like no broken bones, minor concussion with full memory of the crash. Slight bit of soreness, couple cuts on the face, but nothing to like really give me a sort of like PTSD, you know?

'cause I feel like the trauma doesn't come from the crashing because like, I dunno about you, but like, I'm fine with crashing if there's no injury. Like if it's a, if it's in super gnarly crash and you get a little scraped up and I'm like, that's all part of it. But then when you get hurt and you break shit and you experience like.

That pain in those moments of what is wrong with me, then that like gives you more PTSD. So I feel like it's a blessing. Well I don't think I, it's absolutely a blessing that I was basically uninjured on that crash because I think if I was injured it would be a lot harder for me to go to that site and look at everything and be like, ha, look, look that I fell down.

I'd be like, man, it's when uh, when things got really rough, you know? So, so yeah, like, um, oh no, you're asking me if that's why I didn't do Rampage. I feel like Rampage changed a bit after that year and I don't think it was 'cause of me, there was a lot of gnarly shit that happened that year. There was 10 plus people that had to go to the hospital.

I didn't even have to go to the hospital. So that, yeah. Plus besides me, who had the, not the worst crash because that's also the year Paul Basses crashed. Yeah. He was potentially winning. Run overshoots a drop. Can't control it. So that year was really gnarly. And after that year, I don't know if it was because the injuries or just because Red Bull and the event itself and Todd and everyone wanted to like restructure because after that, like they detached from FMB.

The reason that I was at Rampage was 'cause it was at FMB World Tour event. Ah, okay. It was full, like it was the, we had like Crank works. Crank works district tried crank works. We're at Rampage and it's all part of the same point system. And I was like not doing that in LOP in those first years. So I was invited and I was like, red Bull Rampage, like this is the most legendary event.

If you send me an invite, I'm, I'm going, you know, like, I'm not prepared. I barely rode a downhill bike. I'm a BMX kid, but like, I'm both, you know, like this is a huge opportunity. You know, like how many times is this opportunity gonna come around? So the first year I was completely unprepared. And then the second year, the year of the crash, I rode ramps two times full.

The first year I was not prepared at all. I still jumped the cane gap and then I did a front flip lower and crashed. And then the next year is the year of the crash. And I felt way more prepared. The line was good, I thought, but it just made a huge mistake. Too much front break and off a cliff. Mm-hmm. And it's not like I was opposed to doing Rampage after, but because like I'm saying, the event completely switched the structure.

No, FMBI was fully slopestyle focused that to that. Yeah. Like I, uh, I just committed fully to being a, like a slope style. Rider in those years following. So not much time put into Utah. And that's the thing about Utah, like it's a really gnarly riding zone, even if you know how to ride there. Like so when you don't know how to ride there, it's very technical, like the different colors of the dirt.

Mm-hmm. Set up. How steep everything is, how exposed everything is. It's a no mistake zone out there. So especially when you don't spend time out there, things get really spooky. Like I was just out there riding with Reed bugs a bit when we were hanging with the Adolf there. I went there with my bike and it's like those first laps that you get, like the locals are chilling 'cause they're used to it, but you're like looking there.

The huge cliff on one side, huge cliff on the other side. You're riding on like the skinniest pa path. It's like very difficult to uh, to like instantly get used to. It takes, uh, it takes a little while to get comfortable out there. So I feel like that's why, that's why I haven't really committed and tried to ride it.

But, uh, I am motivated to potentially make a return there. It's not the first thing on my list. But, uh, it's motivating for sure. Yeah. It's, it's such a crazy, it's such a unique event. Like, and a lot of people that also aren't involved in the sport, like if they, those are the videos they see, you know, when I tell someone like I'm a downer rider, they're like, oh, you do that stuff.

Like where they jump off the cliffs, right? The Red Bull thing and like, so I feel like a lot of, a lot more people are exposed to that than normal, than other riding, whether it's slopestyle or anything else. But it's hard to explain to people how I haven't been to Utah. But having, like being a rider myself, like when that stuff looks that big on tv, I'm like, this stuff is ridiculous.

Like it's, yeah. I think it's hard to imagine for even a rider, like how big some of the stuff is. And then what is that like for you having done it and, and being in the scene and being like friends with all the guys, um, you know, like this year seeing like a adults crash and Emile crash, like, and being there like Yeah.

How does that feel for you and like, what's the kind of reality of that? Watching Rampage as like a true friend of these guys is quite an emotional roller coaster because it's so motivating, because it's such a big opportunity in one way. You know, like money aside, like if you are a Rampage champion or you do a iconic moment at Rampage, this goes in the history books like you can make mm-hmm.

Hear from these moments. And so it's like your home, your friends are out there with a chance to become legends, you know? And that's like amazing to see and very motivating to see. But you also know the risk and the unpredictability. Like those crashes that we saw from Adolf and Emil especially, there was some vicious ones in practice.

Aiden's one in practice was vicious. I remember Clemens won last year in practice. Yeah, just there was like, oh, Simon Godick. I don't know how he got it from that. That was a vicious crash. So like it's so unpredictable 'cause it can go so wrong. It's like, oh, it's going perfect, it's going perfect. A little not enough speed.

And it goes so wrong. So you're so tense there. So seeing those crashes, it's not like a surprise, but it's still so gnarly and so horrible. And this was like a really, really twisted year. Especially like the whole situation around the add off crash, because. There was rumors about him doing the double flip.

It wasn't like a confirmed thing. It wasn't like he was for sure gonna do it, but if it was possible he was gonna go for it, you know? And a lot of us didn't try to talk him out of it. I think some people were probably trying to talk him out of it. But he's a very strong guy on his own beliefs, you know?

And he's also the type of rider that there's been so many times in his career where someone was like, I all prob, that's not possible. And then he is like, oh yeah, I watch this. Like, yeah, masses of dirt shows. There was last year he was on the back of a snowmobile and they were doing a back flip together.

And then he's like, he's like, I'm gonna do a flip superman secret off of the back of the snowmobile while I'm on the back. And all of us are like, well you are gonna fly off the snowmobile. And like, that's the most risky thing ever. Like, what do you doing? You can't do that. And he goes back, flip grabs the guy.

Marcus Olson is a snowmobile driver and he like does the flip the Superman secret on the back of this snowmobile insane. And the same thing like he was in the back of a buggy and we were like, bro, you won't body barrel the back of the buggy. And he like is on the back of this buggy jumping in the air, drink the body barrel on it.

I remember some of his dark fest double back flips like Right. He can't double flip this. And he goes and does it. So he's been a guy that his whole career, it's been the odds against him. People tell him he can't do it and that motivates him to go out and do it even more. And so me thinking about this double back, I was even talking to Cam McCall before the event.

I'm like, I think he's gonna try this double back flip and the whole time he is in the air, we're gonna think he's not gonna land it and he's miraculously gonna find a way to land it. Mm-hmm. 'cause even at massive dirt this year, he was double back, flip, double backflipping. His motocross bike is stark.

Wow. And he pulled wrong. The position of the flip was wrong, and in the end the landing was perfect. It was such an electric moment in the arena. And it was so, it was like, how did he do that? Like how, how, how did he just manage to do that? So I thought this whole situation was gonna be the same thing.

Mm-hmm. But it was gonna be an impossible move that he somehow makes happen. And then unfortunately it was just a bit short. Like it's this much short Yeah. It's so close. The, the result, the result of the crash and the whole crash makes it look like, wow. Would he ever try that? Like, come on. It wasn't even close.

Like if you really look like the front wheel touches, like the front wheel, if if it goes a little more that, that's fine. You can land on your front wheel. Yeah. Right. When the front wheel kind of hits. So it's this close, you know what I mean? And I was just watching one of his vlogs yesterday where he was still like, um, still local.

He calls them super motivating, super inspirational, but he was at doing some q and a and answering some questions, and, uh, they're asking him if he regrets it and stuff. And he's like, you never know. Like you never know. And that's like the way that he's lived his whole career. Like you never know until you go for it.

And you try. And that's like an, I think that's an amazing mentality to be in, that you're willing to risk everything because you just never know. So yeah, that was extremely heavy. Um, everyone like stepped up in the right way though. It seems like everyone stepped up in the right way and put him in the right mindset.

So prayers to prayers to a, he's honestly inspiring all of us. But, um, yeah, if we move onto that crash to Emil's one, which luckily was not as bad, but had the potential of being even worse considering Yeah. Almost fell off of that one was really shocking to me. And that also is, is crazy that, uh, I had a conversation with Cam McCall the night before Kim and I walk around the mountain because we're in the booth together.

We gotta like get a gauge of what's gnarly to be like on the same. Emotional wave during podcast. So we were walking around the mountain and for some reason on top of that drop, we didn't know that Emil was gonna tail whip this. We heard some rumors about some three sixties happening from Simon Godick especially, but no rumors of the tail whips or anything.

And I asked Cam, we're standing on top of this drop that Emil, Tommy g Simon to go different thing on top of this drop. And I asked Cam, I'm like, cam, how much money did tail whip this drop? And Cam was looking, he was looking down at the drop. Thinking about it, looking at what happens if you go one way looking what happens if you go the other way and really thinking and like he really took a lot of time to process and think of this answer.

He turns to me and he goes, Nikolai, no amount of money in this world would make me tell so holy shit. Think about how we feel the next day when we see Emil taking off to not tail whipp, opposite tail whipp, this drop that we just said, no amount of money would ever convince us to do it. And then the result that, that was from our nightmares, it was, we were like, no dude.

So that's where this risk versus reward conversation comes in. Those risks that double back flip, that opposite tail whip, they don't, they're not like, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna get this money. It's like just about motivating yourself to make that happen. To cement yourself into the history books potentially to push your level as a writer.

It's money alone cannot motivate you to to do moves. Do these life risker moves. So inspirational stuff, really. Emil looks like he's on a good way recovery wise and, uh, and yeah, man, gnarly stuff. Gnarly stuff. Like I said, in one way it's really motivating to write rampage, but in another way you see what's required to, yeah.

Go for podium and finish or go for a victory and you have to risk everything. Everything. So yeah, this, the sport is in a, is in a crazy place of, uh, of people will being willing to risk everything. Does, does seeing, you know, just seeing being there and like, what's, what does seeing those trashes being a pro rider yourself and like, mean you doing similar tricks, right?

So maybe it's not right there on that day, but like, does seeing that have any impact on you? Like, you know, do you have any thought of, of that, you know, 'cause being potentially, you know, having a spinal injury or something like that and which could be, you know, life changing. Do you ever think about that or does it, is it you just kind of block that out?

You definitely try not to think about it, but sometimes those thoughts kind of invade your brain. It requires a lot of mental strength to push those things away. Mm-hmm. And that's something that is inspiring about a lot of these riders that have had very brutal injuries. Like as soon as you have a brutal injury, you always think back to that in moments where your adrenaline starts pumping, start getting nervous for something.

For some reason, those flashes come back in your mind. Shit, my fucking shit was snapped. Oh, I was laying off. You can't just like, you kind of have those thoughts invading your brain. I don't know if you have the same, but like, you have those thoughts invade your brain, those horrible thoughts of like, the worst thing that can happen is, is gonna happen right now.

Yeah. I've, I've been in that situation. I've, I mean, I've had some pretty big injuries myself. I've got a hip replacement, broken both of my hips. Like I had a lot of things as well, but I always found like as a racer, being like in the start gate for me, or like being lined up to go into the start gate.

Like the worst thing would be like when someone has a big crash, like one or two runs before you, and then there's a big delay and then there's the helicopter coming in and like everyone's waiting at the top and you know that like in a few minutes you've gotta drop in and like someone else just. Got carted off potentially, you know, with life threatening injuries and you are like, holy shit.

Like, I feel like that was always something that I really struggled with. Like, if it wasn't at a race, like somehow it didn't bother me as much. Like you were just in practice. 'cause you're just like, oh, maybe it's just, I don't know, some random dude, uh, that has no idea how to ride. But like, when it's like one of the best guys in the world, then you're like, wow, okay.

Like this, it makes it seem more like more real, you know, um, that it can, that it can happen to anyone that, you know, even look at Emil, you know, like how he looks so picture perfect when he rides. Like, it's hard to imagine him making a mistake because it's just like when he does, when he is on like, just like, this guy's like a robot.

It's just like, everything just is perfect. But then, you know, as we saw like things can happen to anyone. Yeah. Yeah. No, that, uh, like in slopestyle we kind of have to have a short term memory because we get two runs running. I mean, because you guys, you guys kind of like, uh, I like the weekend obviously has more runs and if there's quality or, or whatever.

The final day is like that one run. Yeah. Whereas for us, we have two. So if you make a mistake on the first run, you almost have to have that short term memory loss. Like I think they say it for NFL players too, that play defense. Like if you let a big play happen or like a, a goalie or something, like if you let in a shit goal, you can't like live in the past.

You have to like be able to instantly forget about that and move on. So I think in slopestyle we have a lot of that short-term memory too. You do a run and you make like a brutal mistake and you have to like act like that never happened because like if you keep living in that like little moment, then it's gonna influence you.

So I feel like what you're talking about with those injuries, we try to do the same thing. Like, you know, you see your homie go down, it's obviously invading your brain, but you have to like have that short term memory loss of like. Oh that shit, that didn't happen. That didn't happen. I'm locked in on my own thing.

Obviously when you finish the run, like you could embrace those emotions and and stuff, but like that's tough to, to like put that out of your brain and I can't imagine, actually I can't imagine 'cause I was hanging out with him in the days after. But for a rider like re bogs, he was like potentially debating dropping for that second run at Rampage after seeing a bunch of his homies go down.

Reid is extremely close with adult. Reid has been close with Emil over the years. Not like tight like boys, but close. Same with Simon Gods. Yeah. So he sees these injuries and crashes happen and he has to stand up there and act like they did not happen or act like they're gonna be fine, they're gonna be fine.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's in the moment, that's incredible mental strength and it's very difficult to do, but also like leads to a lot of emotions after this. You know, you kinda like block out your emotions. You make yourself into like this. Stone, like robot of a human that needs, just needs to be on her own mission.

Just 'cause like, that's kind of how we're building this competitive format, this two run competitive format. Like you have to like really just focus on that mission no matter how poorly the day is going for you or for others, you know? So, yeah, it's, uh, it's really difficult. I, I think back to also because you brought up like the heli coming in.

Mm-hmm. And then having to be the riders after. We had a really gnarly situation in Big White last year. Big White is one of the biggest loves style courses in the world. Some of the craziest runs going down there. And a Swedish rider, actually, I think Emil's best friend, basically Lucas Skill was on the run of his life, the run of his life, and he did a front flip into the whale tail.

Lands, the front flip loses the hands and goes headfirst into the takeoff of the next of the, of the step down, you know? Yeah. He's just up there with a broken neck on this whale tail. We have to go with like 10 or 15 people to get this stretcher up, get the stretcher off of this whale tail, load him into the ambulance.

He has a broken neck. We don't know if he's gonna be okay. Luckily, he, he walked back to the hotel at, with, with a neck brace. Like, oh yeah, boy. Little, little break in my neck. I'm good. But we had to like, after all this gnarly shit, seeing this crash. Literally in our pads, in contest jerseys, like helping this stretcher off, not knowing if our homie is gonna be okay, and then having to go and then drop in and do the gnarliest runs of our life on this huge course.

Like this was very, very difficult mentally, but somehow a lot of us guys were able to, to do some of our best runs and penda and yeah. But, um, but it's, it's tough. Like it's, it's a lot of, uh, just, just a mental block, really. Emotion block. Do you feel like Rampage is. Is there a way to make it safer? Like, do you feel like it's, 'cause a lot of people, especially this year after the crashes, you know, people in the comments and likes, people that I know that watched the event, they were like, oh no.

Like, I prefer watching the women's event because it was like more, more like realistic. Like there's like, the men's is just so ridiculous now and, and the risk is so high and they don't wanna see people get hurt. No one wants to see that. Do you feel like it's, it's become, it's kind of gone too far or, or is there a way that things can be improved to make it a bit safer for the riders?

So the improvement is a new site. So if you notice this year, some of the past champions and the biggest dogs of the sports chose not to compete. Guys like Kyle Strai, guys like Brandon Seminar, guys like Jordy, because this was, if I'm not mistaken, this is the fourth time that Rampage has happened on that specific site.

Mm-hmm. That makes it very gnarly because every rider. Thinks that they need to do a gnarly run than the ones that have previously been done on that site. And the runs that have previously been done on that site are already insane. Rampage run. Mm-hmm. These riders are literally like building these impossible features.

Like double flip the step down. Kirk Sogi won the event that he flipped it straight. Yeah. Like, uh, the fact that the gold and GenOn are spitting that top drop, you simply do not do anything on that drop. Like the, the level is just insane. Like the Hayden Blaney entry off the top with them. Lily had the lily one bike link long.

I mean, I could, I could say crazy things about everyone's line because everyone is pushing it like. Lemoine built off of the goblin, which is already so gnarly. He goes like 20 feet further, the other way off the goblin. So the point I'm trying to make is with a new site, you can't build stuff like this because that mountain is raw.

That mountain is steep. You don't know what's awesome hub. So in that week, two weeks of building and practice, if it's a fully new site, you cannot build stuff that's that insane for those type of tricks and everything. Yeah. Whereas this site is the fourth time, you're just trying to make things more and more crazy and it leads to runs that are just ridiculous.

Yeah. And uh, like, so, like such dangerous runs. So I think that if they can find a new site, which is incredibly difficult, finding a site for Rampage where it's. Safe, but also gnarly and also has access and you can actually do a full broadcasted event there. Like this is difficult. So I think if they're able to find a new site, um, that has not yet been competed on, then it's gonna be a lot more pleasurable to watch and less.

That's fine. Mm-hmm. But that's crazy that you, you, one of your friends said that they would rather watch the women's, because I feel like the women were going completely mental on their side, bro. Yeah, they, yeah. I don't know. I, I guess they, yeah, it's all, I mean, it all depends on the people. Some people like to watch people get hurt, but, you know.

Yeah. I don't think, I mean, it's fine if people crash and they get up and it's all good, but, you know, I don't, no one wants to see people, you know, get badly hurt, so that's for sure. I guess like, obviously the women were insane, but obviously not quite as gnarly as the men. But that's, you know, that is just, uh, the nature of the sport because, you know, the men are stronger and, and things, but it's, it's crazy how far the women have come over the last, like, few years.

So, and like, also like events like Dark Fest and stuff, and the woman doing two to Bs and like, people have, like, I've been, so I'm from, I'm from Cape Town as well, and I'm, and I've ridden at, at Ikes farm quite a bit. And, and I've been on that course and I've walked down there and like, I'd actually be quite keen to do a fair series, but like, people have no idea how massive those jumps are.

Like Yeah. People watch online, like, oh, Sweden, they see the woman hitting it. Like, dude, you have no idea how big these jumps are. Like, it's like a football field like that, that one 10 or whatever. So it's like, oh yeah, that's like the most ridiculous jump in. But coming back to like the slopestyle side, like, and, and obviously that's like been your main focus, like, and, and also the crashing, like it's pretty crazy to me that there's not, well there are injuries, but like comparing it to Rampage, it feels like there's a lot more at an event like Rampage in terms of percentage of riders than there isn't slopes slopestyle, even though the guys crash a lot.

You guys somehow just like tuck and roll, like, uh, how do, how do you like, like you're in the middle of a, of a cash roll and suddenly you just eject and you're like, fine. Like how, how, how does, how do you learn that? Uh, I think, I honestly think a lot of slopestyle training is also crash training because if a slopes, if you do an entire slopestyle event, start to finish with no crashes.

That means you're probably not pushing your levels hard enough. Mm-hmm. Like in practice, like there has to be some sketchy moments or some crashes happening if you're really trying to do the best. Or you can do some blown up tires, some slams, some slide outs, some cases and almost shit. That's all part of it, you know, it's, it's a, it's like a, not a trial and error type of sport, but in a way it is.

You know, you're like, I think I can do a double flip on this hit. And then you try it and you're like, well that's not gonna work. Or you're like, maybe this trick will work on this job. And then you try it and you're like, oh damn, I can do even more. So it's so much trial and error. So I feel like that's why in training, the crashing is like part of the training because you have to be ready to crash and you have to be ready to crash in the right way.

Because if you come to these events, you try something, it goes wrong, you crash and you can't continue, then you. You can't like really push your runs in your career that much. So if you are able to learn how to crash in a safer way to get out of these moves, like you're saying, you're in the middle of a crazy move.

It's going raw. You eject, you gotta like learn how to put your body to not crumble the whole thing and like smoke your head and everything. So I feel like all of us slope riders, like whether we're riding on airbags or mm-hmm. Uh, mulch jumps or normal dirt, like during the sessions, we're crashing a lot.

Um, not a lot, but uh, like, we're willing to crash is what I mean. Yeah. And I feel like that's what's part of the, the training and that's what allows you to have a crash in practice that seems crazy. Get up, go again, or have a crash in that first run like I was talking about, forget it that ever happened.

Forget about the pain and go again. So, yeah, that's what I've kind of learned over the years with slopestyle is that like, one of the best abilities you can have is durability. You know what I mean? Like, if you're durable, like then you can, you can try things, crash. Push yourself further. You know, like, um, even like a writer like Brett Reeder, his durability was always something that impressed me so much.

He's a frail guy. He's not like some sort of muscular beast, you know, like a skinny built guy. Like that's just the way, like he, he's elite form, but the crashes he's had in practice, like flip flat, drop under, rotate. Yeah, crash. I remember at one year, one year in Whistler, he did this truck down whip. He got all caught up.

Huge crash. Vienna Air King once in practice, he broke his helmet in two pieces. An hour later he won the contest. Like those insane slopestyle performers have have like some serious durability because it's the type of sport where it's not gonna go perfect. Like, and in the, the most successful competitions you have are the kind of the ones that are gonna really test you and test how, how tough you can be, you know?

So, um, so yeah, I think that's like you, what you asked is how we can crash and get up and I think like, because that's part of our preparation, you know? Yeah. You mentioned, um, you mentioned ah, Willie A. Little while back and I had him on the pod as well a few months ago. And, um, super nice guy, but he told me that he's never broken a bone before.

And I know that Sam Reynolds also a, he, a couple years ago now, he was testing one of the, one of the jumps at Dark Fest and crashed and he broke his wrist, I think. And that was, that was the first, as far as I know, that was the first. Bone that he'd broken, which is just like wild to me. Like when you, I don't know.

I mean, I've had a lot of, I've had a lot of things and I know a lot of other people have had a lot of things, but then when you look at you guys and I think like the soap star guys from the outside, it's like, you guys must break things on the weekly basis kind of thing, you know? But it seems like it's not necessarily the case.

Like you guys somehow know how to get away with it. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I mean, there's definitely moments where you get unlucky and stuff, and there's definitely riders that are more unlucky with injuries than others like. Like a rider that comes to mind is Caden Ingersoll. Like Caden Ingersoll has a gymnast background and is incredibly fundamentally skilled and strong and can take crashes very well.

But like this year in cans in Australia at Crank Works, he goes for his first practice lap Overshoots a jump too far, like I was saying, bullshit happens in practice. Overshoots a jump, lands too far, breaks his foot. Out for the event, you know, comes back, goes from the foot, goes to Silver Star, which is one week before a Red Bull Joyride does a flip bar to whip, which he can do in his sleep.

His, his arm flies off, does the whip, he tries to avoid landing on the foot that's broken. So he like, kind of puts it under him, ends up landing on his back and butt and breaking one of his vertebrae. And it's like, this stuff can just get you, even if you're the most durable mm-hmm. Seeming rider and he's young and everything.

So it's like a, it's a matter of luck and everything too. Like sometimes the luck really will get you, like you have a huge crash that you should get injured and you're like. Wow. Yeah, fine. And then one that's like a dinky little crash and then you're like, oh god, a broken something. So yeah, I mean we, I didn't know that Willie still hasn't broken, fallen.

I remember seeing him posting about that a few years ago, and I thought it happened at this bull. Yeah. A lot of people might say like he's, he's riding resis and he is riding airbags, but like if you look at this dude on concrete and dirt, like he crashes just as hard if not harder on those. Yeah. The durability is crazy on that guy.

But that's what I mean. See what it, see what you can do when you're durable. You can do like the most psychotic tricks the world has ever seen. You know what I mean? If you can take a hundred crashes and get up from them. So, uh, so yeah, another guy actually that comes to mind is, um, is Teo Lanson. You, you probably know Teo.

'cause he, I, I mean, I think he has had, he did break something, but like very minor. Like, it was nothing like super serious. And he's okay. He's not doing slopestyle, but he's had some gnarly crashes over the years and like, somehow he is just like, jumps back up and you're like, what the hell? Like, is this guy made out of like rubber or something?

And I'm not, not that I wish a crash, uh, an injury on anyone, but it's just like, it's very interesting to me, like how yeah, some guys can just get up and, and others seem to always go to the hospital. It is interesting for sure. Like different riders are built different and like I was, and it's, it seems like the, the build of the rider.

I was, I was actually discussing this. With some people last year, uh, and I wanna see what you think. You do think there's an elite body build for a mountain biker because if you look at slopestyle and the legends of slopestyle, they kind of have a similar build, but some people are different. If you look at like Brandon and Brett and Emil and David Gojek, they're kind of all, mm-hmm.

Between six two and six four lanky, but still strong, built tall. But then there's guys like Tim. Who's just the absolute Hulk. Yeah. And then there's someone like me who has won a, a good amount of contest and I'm definitely shorter and more like square shaped, really like built for crashing and stuff like that.

So I would like, what do you think? Do you think there's like an elite build for the. Best mountain biker or you, or you don't think so? Hard to say. I think it depends. I mean, I maybe, I don't know, I don't know if it's coincidence that those, those three are built like that. But I mean, you would be certainly up there in that conversation as well, and you are very differently built to them.

I wouldn't, to be honest, I wouldn't have thought it would be a good thing to be that tall, but maybe because they're tall, they can like manhandle the bike a bit easier or, you know, with spins and stuff. Um, certainly in the, not in slope style, in the downhill side, I would say it's probably not the best to be super tall.

Like, not short, but like, if you look at like Jackson, like what he's doing, he's, he's like a, he's killing it. And I think like his size, I, I think in a lot of places his size helps him, you know, especially in steeper tracks and stuff. So, but maybe because of the slopestyle and like having to really spin the bike and, and man, maybe that does play a role.

I say it seems. Like, it seems like the riders just kind of have to those elite riders, like I think they're just elite and it's not because they're built, they just find a way to prioritize, not prioritize, but make the most out of the way they're built. Like with I think what David Gojek, like David Gaza does, twister, no hander, so easily like the twister, no hander.

Easier than he does. Uh, just a twister. And I've been, dude, I've trying to learn Twister, no Anders for years and I can sometimes do them, but like so hard for me to get in there and I see him and I feel like he's taller and he can just kinda lean over the bars and have everything more there. But like maybe he's just more elite at that trick than I am.

You know, like it's, I don't know if it's like the body or like the skills of it. And same with someone like Emily does like the downside whips and he's able to get so far above his bike, you know, like in such a steep fashion with whether it's like 360 triple top side or it's triple downside. He's like.

Pulling the legs to the sky and he's like way over it. And I don't know if that massive build helps or if he just makes it work. But like you brought up Jackson, but if you think about like Greg Manar, the dude is massive and he has like the most elite career of all time. Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't think there's, I think you can do it with any body size.

Maybe there is easier than others, but I think, you know, you can certainly do it with, with both. I think being strong is never a bad thing, you know, for when you do hit the ground. But yeah, I dunno, I don't, I think that's quite the cool thing about, but mountain biking is that you can do it, you know, whether you're short, tall, like strong, thin, you kind of, I mean, obviously there'll be pros and cons, but you can kind of do it from whichever size you are.

Which is, which is pretty sick actually. 'cause I mean, a lot of other sports, and you're talking about football and stuff, you, if you're not, if you haven't got some muscle on you and you go in there, you're gonna get flattened. That's true. Like. You were talking about all the, the, some of the tricks there, like when you are going in, when you've gone into contests before, whether you've done, whether you've won or not, like are there any times where you throw a trick where you're not fully confident?

Or is it always that, you know beforehand like, I got this kind of thing? No, dude, that's why I did crazy celebrations, bro. The craziest celebrations, the greatest celebrations I've done is times where I was convinced that I was not gonna land the trick, but fear, willpower. I said, I am going to land this, and then you go for it.

You give everything and somehow you land it. Like man, this makes me like freak out inside. You know, I feel like in Innsbrook especially, there was one year where Brett Reader and I were battling and I had just like kind of learned the kale tail whip. It's like kale tail kind of ends up more like a seven 20 tail whip.

Mm-hmm. But I had like kind of just learned it and I did my first run and he did his first run and he was above me and I was trying to beat him and I like was trying to figure out what I needed to do to beat him. I remember I was talking to Ryan Quis, the legend, and Anthony Uri also legend I was talking to.

What do I have to do on this lap? What do I have to do on this? Because in the first round I did front flip bar to no hand. And then uh, I was thinking like maybe like, uh, some improvement of that. And then they were like, no, no, it's not enough. It's not enough. 'cause reader rear did was doing some crazy moves and he was doing like opposites and stuff and I had no opposites.

So I had to like hammer the biggest bangers I can do. Mm-hmm. We're brainstorm, we're brainstorming, and then I just suddenly think I'm like, Cashy whip. And then both of them are like, yes, yes. And then so I was like, damn, I don't know if I can land this. I really don't because I don't think I've ever landed it on dirt.

But if I want a chance to win this event, I have to go do this. And so I tried to stay patient, I do the run, I had the cork seven on the step down right before the cashier wave. I have to lock in on the cork seven to land it good, do the cork. Seven I land. And I'm like, okay, this is the time. This is the time.

And I didn't really even know how the trick fell. So I just go, I do it. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. And then I just like land. Perfect. And in that moment, like the biggest relief off the shoulders, the biggest like shocker for myself because like literally it's like it was planned like you, like it was planned.

You're saying like a hundred percent sure that you can do it. Like it was, there was like almost no percentage of thinking I would do it. Like I was, my determination to do it was a hundred percent, my desire to do it was a hundred percent, but like, whether or not I could actually complete it successfully, there was like, uh, no confirmation.

So I feel like tho those situations, like I was just selling completely freaking out and, uh, just such an emotional release, you know? So those are really the moments that, uh, that I live for in slopestyle. That's like the best thing ever. When when you're not sure, you know, you need to do it and then you somehow complete it.

Like, I, it's hard for me to like re relate that to something. Yeah. It's, um, well, I, I, yeah. I mean, I can relate in a, in a sense, but like, not doing tricks, but like on the clock, like, yeah, for me it's like when I was race, when I've been racing, it's. It's not always about the result, it's about like doing the best that you can do, like that day, like whether that puts you in fifth or first or 10th or whatever.

It's like, but when you get down and you know that you did something that you didn't think you could do or weren't even sure you could do, but you, you did it, you went faster than a certain time or whatever. Like that is such a sick feeling. Like, and that's I guess which the type of feeling that you would've got from landing something that you didn't, you didn't expect to land.

Yeah. It's like, um, I, I think I was, I forget who I was talking to about this. It's like the performances that you impress yourself, you know, like you, all those writers, I feel like hold ourselves to a certain standard. Like I would be okay with this result. I would be stoked on this result and like I would be rarely fired up on this result.

But then if, like you're saying results aside, if you like go above all of that with just your performance alone, regardless of the result. Yeah. Look back on the day and you're like, I am personally impressed. Whole performance. Yeah. Cool. Then, you know, it was a successful day. Like, you, you feel the same know, like when you're like, damn, I really fucking went above and beyond today.

That's, uh, yeah, that's, it's something that, yeah, not many people can understand, but, um, it's, that's like the best feeling. I feel like It's not, it's not only about yeah, the results. Just about doing something that you didn't think you could do or doing better than you expected is like, and you're like, dude, that was sick.

Like, I can't believe if I did that kind of thing. Whe when was like, when, let's, let's talk about the opposite for a sec. Like, have you ever like, uh, had the complete opposite? Because I feel like that is the worst when you're like so ashamed. You're like, oh dude. I've also, I've also, have you ever been in a situation where you do a, you do a run, like you do a Slope Star run?

I do a race run, but like you get to the bottom and you think, like, you think it was. Pretty good. And then like look at the result and you're like, what the hell? Like what did I do wrong kind of thing. And it's a bit of a mind fuck 'cause you're like just, yeah. You just dunno what to think. Yeah. I mean it's, I feel like in our sport it's even more confusing because you guys are like against yourselves than against the clock and real's, fully judged.

And sometimes like you're not sure what the, what the judges want that day or like how they're judging. So sometimes like you come down to a run. And you're like, damn, that was a pretty sick run. That was awesome. Then the score comes in, it's like in the sixties or in the seventies, and you're, Hey, I guess my run was like the worst thing ever seen, you know?

But then there's been, there's also been other times where it's like also confused you, where you're like, not so stoked on the run. You're like, uh, you know, like that felt all right. And then the score comes in at like a 90 and you're like, whoa, okay. So I guess it was sick then, you know, like, um, yeah. Yeah.

It's hard, harder to judge your own performance, but maybe it's, it's the same for you. Like maybe like the time is worse or better than you felt like it was. I don't know. Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. Like some, sometimes you can come down and you think you went fast and you actually went super slow. And other times I've had times where have I've won races and then I thought I was gonna come like fifth and then I ended up winning and I was like, what the hell?

Like that run didn't feel that special. So it's just, I dunno, it's, it's weird sometimes where like, when was, so was there, is there a moment that, I mean you've, you've won a lot of events, you won a triple crown, like you won all sorts of things. Like is there something, it doesn't even have to be a win, like, but was there a time and moment that kind of sticks out to you in your career where you were like, this is, that was, doesn't get better than that.

Yes. District ride 2017 district tried 2017, the first 1440 that I was landed in contest. So, um, district tried 2017, uh, I was working on the 1440. We had a best trick competition the night before the event. I tried some fourteens. I barely landed one, but I was like, yo, I can do 14. And we had two runs that day.

Classic slope style. I did my first run and I was in third place. I was behind, I was behind Simon Gaia and I knew I needed to improve the run very viciously all the way through. And then at the end, if everything came down to it, go for the 1440. And like district ride is crazy. You go through all these districts, you go through all the city, the run takes ages, and then you have to go up the elevator and then you come out and there's, I think they say 75,000 people there.

Like it's insane how many people crazy. So I remember just trying to stay so mentally composed during that whole run. You know, like one, one feature at a time, one district at a time. Everything, everything, everything, everything. And I made it to the, to the end, going up the elevator. And I remember I was doing motions in the elevator, like I was just still so locked in.

And then, uh, I come out and I was standing on top of the Roland and like everyone's so far below. I was trying to ask the boys, like some of the boys had already finished their runs. I remember it was like Thomas lemoyne, Logan, Pete, Ryan Nyquist, maybe Max Fredrickson. There was like a little group of them that was like standing up at me, like, yeah, yeah.

And I was trying to ask them what I should do. I was like, boys, three or four, like three or four. Like asking them like, yeah, what I should do, like just, just the twister again, or 14 because I, I was like so tripped out, like about the score. 'cause the scoring in that event is so crazy. And I was just like trying to be calm, but, and I was like three or four, but it's so far away that they had no idea what I was asking them.

They're like, and then I had no idea what feedback they were giving back to me. I was like, are these guys telling me three year? Are these guys telling me four? Like, I'll fucking know. And then, so I like, I'm like, all right, when in doubt you have to go for it. So I was like, okay. I go for 14, I got, and then I realized that I was just risking everything I had done, the winning run.

And it was possible for me to maybe win with a twister, but like, maybe not, because Simon and Emil still had to go after me. And so I was like, you know what? I go for it. And then the feeling when I landed that, like I, I drop in pedal, pump spin, everything feels good. I land perfect. And I just remember, like, I've never been so in disbelief about like a, a landed trick.

Like we talked about the cashy wave from Inza book before, but this was another level I remember I was like, looking at this guy, I was just like, over the moon. And um, if like, if we're talking like best feelings, best competition feelings, like that one for some reason just tops everything like that one, I don't know why.

I don't know if it's just because of so much commotion in the moment that just like came perfectly the way it should have. You know, like so much commotion in my brain. So many nerves, so much adrenaline, and then just like land. Perfect. But yeah, it's just, uh, that is like a feeling and a cell in everything that I, that I will never forget.

Like even above the Triple Crown, even above winning the world championship in Grammy. For some, for some reason, that one will stick with me forever. That's sick. Um, I can't even imagine. Like, that's another thing, like with your tricks, like you definitely go more for like the banger tricks where some guys focus more on doing opposites and, and things like that, which I think for the people watching, sometimes it's confusing.

'cause like you watch your run and then you watch like ML'S run and sometimes people like your run to someone who doesn't understand a sport, like your run could look more impressive because it's like you're doing such crazy spins and tricks and like, but I guess yeah, people don't understand the, the kind of technicality, you know, behind it.

But yeah, I guess that's always the challenge with a, with a judged event, you know? Yeah. I mean I've, I feel like, um, at, at least my dad says this, I feel like I've always been crowd pleaser type of rider. So if it comes from riding shows when I was young or anything, I remember there was one TV show that they were interviewing my dad and he was like, he always ride better when they're fans, especially if girls around.

So like he from like a young age that like I was motivated if there was people watching or if there was girls watching or things like that. So I think that started to dictate my riding style, you know, because I was like, what's gonna make people go more crazy, more spins, or more crazy looking mm-hmm.

Locations. So I kind of was motivated to do that. Whereas riders like Emil, they are in their own zone. They're in their own tunnel and they kind of are more motivated with pushing their own levels of technicality and like in the end it makes a very successful strategy because the judges are the ones judging the event.

Like it's the fan judge, the fans like you, they cheer for you. It feels awesome when they cheer for you, but if the cheer, the fans are cheering crazy. The judges give you a bad score because the other riders are way more tech. Yeah. They really wins at the end of the day, you know, so I feel like there's the judges in contests in general.

There's been a couple times where it was like the hype that kind of won me the event. You know, like maybe the other rider run was more technical or more mm-hmm. Uniquely difficult. Whereas my one was just more powerful and visually pleasing and easier to understand. So I feel like I've been able to benefit from that strategy a little bit luckily.

But I've always kind of said like, you don't ride for the judges, you ride for yourself. And if I, yeah, that's how you stay motivated. That's how you love it. Like so many of the competitors that rode for the judges had to leave the sport because the, like it's, that's hard mentally. Yeah. You know, like if you're, if you're a semi or if you're a reader and you come to the event and you are determined to win the event, and if you do not come first place at this event, then like you're emotionally.

Devastated and your goal is not complete. I feel like that's so difficult. You put so much pressure on yourself, whereas my main motivation was making the crowd go crazy. So as long as I make the crowd go crazy, like I'm enjoying it. So I feel like that's allowed me to enjoy things more over the years.

And uh, also kind of just like, um, root for my, my fellow competitors, you know, because, uh, because it was like less about my own mission and more about like everyone going crazy. Yeah, that's one thing that I've noticed is that you seem to be so stoked for guys. Like even if they beat you, like if they just nail their run, like, I mean, and which is hard, like, because you, I mean, you wanna win too, right?

So, and then a guy comes down, lays down a sick run, and you just like, you so stoked and you look so genuinely stoked as well, which is super cool to see, you know, the, the sportsmanship, which not everyone has, like, you know, you can see some guys, you know, if they don't, they don't have the run they wanted, they, they look pretty pissed.

And which, which is also kind of natural, I guess. So what do you think? Is it, is it just that the fact that you're not that bothered with the results or, or you kind of had a different focus, what makes you able to kind of be so, so chilled about it? Man, I think it's because like these friendships with these guys are so valuable.

Like for me it's, it's impossible not to root for them. Like we have so much connection at these events with slope riders. I feel like with racing, I don't know, tell me after. But it seems like it's way more competitive head to head. Yeah. You're not trying to reveal the secrets, whereas we're working together in practice.

It's like, I'm gonna, I'll, I'll do this trick if you do this trick and you guys are both nervous together, like, come on bro, you got this shit. You do something, your homie does something, you're like, fuck yes, we're unlocking it. Come on, move on to the next. And it's like before the runs sometimes we're like, we're like, I love you, bro.

Get this shit. Like, we're like so connected. We're such homies. Like we listen to music padding up before the event. Like we're, we're just actually. So cool with each other in the way that we get along, you know? And I feel like that makes things so much more enjoyable. 'cause we struggle with weather, we struggle with crash, struggle with fresher.

But if like you have your homies there, like everything is more enjoyable and it almost feels like a team effort. You know? Like if everyone crashes their run, that's like a failed day. If everyone lands their runs, complete bangers, like you guys are looking good out there, like time performance, you know?

So it's hard. Like imagine you're really close, homie. You're going before the run. Get the ship, bro. I love you. I'll see you at the bottom. Like, you're not gonna go root for your homie to crash after you guys have this interaction. Yeah, that's the scream. Hopefully they get down there, you're up at the top, you're pumped as hell.

Then you go down and that dude is waiting there for you, and you guys celebrate together. That, that's like the most incredible feeling, you know? It's like you're pushing together. And, um, and then I feel like it's also the, in the judges' hands, you know what I mean? Like, uh, it was funny this year, uh, because Eric Fedco went first in Australia.

He was the first rider, and they always, uh, they always screw over the first rider. Um, so he did this banger run. He gets scored like decent. He gets like a 85 or whatever. He is like, all right, all right, that's good. And then like, uh, I was a couple riders later than him and I did a run and he thought his run was better, you know, but I went later in the order and I did my run.

And so they scored me above. Like, I, I go like just one spot above him. Then I come back to the riding lounge. Eric is chilling there. He turns to me and like it is all jokes, but he's like, yo, fuck you bro. You know? It's like, but it's like he's not, it is not like pissed at me, like I do my run. I'm not the one like deciding to score.

It is like, yeah. So also that could be the aspect to like, you're not gonna be pissed at your homie because you did something and then the judges gave a better score. It's like, it's say, oh, I was sick. Or like, fuck you girl. You know? So it's like, uh, it's a funny dynamic, you know, we're competitive and we like to battle against each other, but, uh, we don't wish bad upon each other.

And if you win or get one better result because your homies getting taken away in an ambulance, like. That's twisted, bro. You know? So it's, uh, yeah, we're all just rooting for each other's wellbeing and, uh, and yeah, I feel like the sport would be a little bit more entertaining if we hated each other, but that's just like normal.

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? If we were like, fuck this guy, this guy gets good scores and I hate his riding. Like, you know, even like, like I feel like the Supercross guys, because they like collide on track. They, they have those natural conflicts, but, um, it's harder for us to have those natural conflicts because we have to be connected for us to stay mentally strong during these events.

So yeah, a couple more heated rivalries, even if they're fake, might be kind of fun. But, uh. I mean, I love the dynamic that we have now, and it's, every contest has so many good memories and so much in England, no matter how it goes. Who, um, you know, talking about your homies and, and obviously over the years there's been a, I'm sure there's been a lot of guys that you as, when you came into the sport that you were looking up to and that you then competed against and, and beat.

Like, I mean, for me, when I look at slopestyle, you know, you talk about guys like Emil, Brandon, David, godsick yourself, like, so obviously other than yourself, like who would you say is over the last, over your career has kind of impressed you the most? Who would you say is like, other than you, you know, who would you say is kind of Yeah.

Probably the most standout. We talk about this guy way too much, but it's just. You think far above like, like I came into this sport and Brandon was winning every event and taking over. Not taking over. He was already the king. Like he was winning, winning every event like, and then reader came along and really was giving Brandon a run for his money.

Like really battling with him at every event. Came out on top a couple times, I think. Not too many. Mm-hmm. Remember Bear Claws? I know that reader won. And Brandon ii, I know Lay does out also, but Brandon was really far above. And then Brett came in and then when Brandon stepped aside more than Brett had like a really gnarly arrow where he was really hard to beat, but.

I found ways to do it somehow. He was, it was every time that I won, uh, an event against Brett, he was the better rider than me on that course. But whether it was hype or fan energy or execution in the final part of the run, I was able to win some of those events. But like the technicality he displayed and the writing skills that he had, he was always above me, in my opinion.

I was more mentally strong than him, I think, uh, because he was like, I, like I was saying before, he was putting so much pressure on himself to win the event. I feel like that's sometimes hurting. Mm-hmm. Because he was so determined. He's like, I need to win. I need to win. And that's hard. Um, but then Il, it's not just like he wins the event.

It's like the first day of practice you see that this guy is so far above everybody else so far, like as if he, he shouldn't be in some competition class of his own having fought on the course. 10 different options of on each jump in both directions and just like, uh, and it's still even saving stuff for the run.

Like there's some riders that do the whole run top to bottom in practice. Mm-hmm. Will do some banging top to bottom runs, but then when the actual contest run comes, it's just ridiculous. And it's like such risky moves that are executed perfectly. Like even Whistler this year. Like people talk about the foot slip, but you're starting to run with a half cab whip and ending it with a flat drop switch, double whip when a regular switch, double whip, flat drop has won competitions.

For me and for David Godick, like that's so, like, he's so far above. It's almost frustrating and it's almost like, like you were saying, it's hard for the people to understand 'cause they're like, what? That was an opposite 360 inward table to double downside whip. Like that's, it's the technicality is so absurd that, um, it's difficult to understand.

So he has been one of the ones that have impressed me the most. Mental wise though, this is an interesting one. Mentality wise, one of the ones that impressed me most is Cam Zinc. Mm-hmm. Cam Zinc, in my opinion, does not have the same level of talent that guys like Emil and Reader do, but Zinc has the most crazy determination and willpower and motivation that I've ever seen.

Like the fact that he was going for a win at Rampage this year and, and almost was. At the level to do it. Like if you look at 10 years ago, his wife has a pregnant belly and he's flipping the icon center, and now the kids are like grown up, uh, and he's still going for the win. Like, yeah, so many injuries and so many crashes and not the same skill level.

Like his mental determination through the slope contest that I did with him towards the end of his slope career through these ramp pages, through the times that he wrote proving grounds. And he is like, I don't care. I'm going to do this on this job. Whether you guys think it's possible or not, it's insane mental strength.

So, uh, yeah, those are, those are guys that have really impressed me over the years. I'm trying to think of if there's any, any other figures that have really impressed me in a way, I honestly, I have to shout out Thomas GenOn because he, Lee has like such a long career. He won Joy Ride in 2010 and we're talking, that's crazy.

20, 25, 15 years later, he gets his first rampage podium and we're talking about long career. Yeah. Fifth weird. Like that is insane. And it was, it was funny because, uh, Thomas GenOn and my father of lad, like they, they got along a lot in the, in the early years of the competition. They have like a funny relationship with them, have funny accents.

And Tommy G was like in a dull moment this year at Rampage, and he was like, uh, Nikola, like, it was a kind of joking moment, but it was, he was like, Nicola, I need you to give me a Vlad pep talk. And he gimme a Vlad pep talk talk. And I was like, dude, are you serious? Like, if I, if you want real Vlad pep talk, like I gotta give it to you.

And he's like, yes bro, I, I need it. I, I don't know if it was just like an dull moment. He needed some more patient or like why he requested this or if he would just want to joke around. He's such a jokester type of guy. But then, 'cause he's been like fifth and sixth, that rampage so many times. So I went at it with him full Russian accent style.

Like, do you just want to get the fifth place again? Or you want to do something? Like, I just like absolutely yelling at him like as if I was my father, like coaching him. And um, I don't know if it was the pep talk, but that second run where he spinned the drop and comes to the bottom and man, I almost think that he should have won that event.

That drop, that top drop spin is, is insane. So yeah, that's just a rider that has impressed me with, uh, his, both his, uh, his physical and his mental, like, um, he's come back from a few injuries himself. Slope style Rampage always stylish, like yeah. Yeah. There's three really different characters that I've just presented to you.

ML versus Kim Zink versus Tommy G. Some different characters right there. Yeah, definitely some absolute legends. Like, and you mentioned like with Emil, that sometimes it was like, it could be frustrating 'cause he, he's just on that level. Was there, what was like through your career and then it, it doesn't necessarily have to be a rider, but like, was there a moment or a point or multiple where you, where it was really hard, where you, I don't know, like mentally to, to kind of keep going?

Um, whether that be from an injury or just like, I don't know, feeling like not where you should be. Did you ever have that moment or were you always kind of just like head forward? Head down and I was, I was, was always really like not feeling bad for myself because. 'cause that's just the way that I kind of always pushed forward, like, uh, no excuses type of mentality.

So I feel like I was always pushing forward, but I was lucky when it term come. When it comes to injuries, I was crashing hard and I was padded up for sure. But it doesn't matter how many pads you wear if you smoke the ground in the wrong way, like, yeah, injuries happen, bone breaks happen, tears happen. So luckily I didn't struggle with injuries, but then when I had the, my arm snap, um, in, in cans, that one really set me for a loop for a little bit because I had done my first run and I completed it.

And then I was like, you know what? Like what do I have to lose? Like I'm gonna go for the go for a win. And then so I drop in, I try to twist it over this, uh, like first feature, like over the whole thing. I come up short. I go over, I break my arm, my arm's going the wrong way. I'm like, I've never had anything like that.

I was always a nightmare of like seeing one of your limbs the wrong way. Yeah, look up. And my, my hand is pointed the wrong way. Luckily this, the bone wasn't coming out of the skin. They said almost what? So it could have been worse for sure, but then like that was super painful. I was super, like, drugged up straight away.

They gave me the greed whistle. I remember riding in the hospital. Uh, they gave me some crazy drugs. I felt like I was on top of the ambulance, outside of the ambulance. Easy bro. Um, and like, luckily I hadn't had too many, like any experiences like that at all, like ambulance and shit because like I was pretty lucky with all my injuries and so.

Then in those like next days and weeks after, I had never experienced the injury and like how it takes a bit of time. So I was just sitting there with this broken arm and it was hurting like hell. And then I was like, what the fuck, dude? I just tried to win this contest and now I'm never gonna be able to try to win a contest again.

Just because, because like I was so inexperienced, I was like having these moments that made me feel like I could never, ever get back to my level of mental strength and physical strength. Mm-hmm. Um, but that was just like a inexperienced moment, you know? And in those moments I had to think about like, riders coming back from injuries.

Like, you know, you said you have hip injuries. Like remember thinking of like Tom Van Steenberg and. Double hip explosion. Yeah, he came back from that somehow. So I'm like, man, I'm sitting here crying about this fucking broken wrist when these dudes be having way crazier injuries. Like doing, you know? So luckily, like it was just like in a weird moment because of my inexperience.

But, but I feel like that was the, that was the hardest one for me. So like, that's not so bad. Yeah. I mean, but like even, I mean, first of all, that's insane that you've only had that through your career. 'cause I've seen, I mean, with all the crash we talked about the rampage crash and all, I mean, you've crashed so many times in slopestyle, but yeah, as what we talked about earlier, that it's somehow you guys somehow know something better than we do.

Um, or maybe it's 'cause there aren't like trees and rocks or something, but, um, that's pretty, that's pretty impressive. But, uh, yeah, it's wild. Um, it is, it is something when you have, when you have that first injury, I mean, I remember myself when I first had an injury, it was like, holy shit. Like, you know, because you, yeah, you, you dunno how everything goes and then you gotta get surgery or something and then you're like, oh, like what's gonna happen now?

Like, am I gonna be okay? Kind of thing. And then, yeah. And not that it's a good thing, but when you've had it a few times, then you kind of like, maybe mentally it's like, okay, well I know how this goes, kind of thing. But How long were you out that time with your arm? Not so long. It ended my season. I think I was, uh.

Injury happened in May, and then I was riding again lightly in September. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. That's not, I mean, yeah, it, but I'm sure you would've felt that five months. But that's 'cause I didn't get surgery, so the ligaments needed a lot of pt. Mm-hmm. But I'm sure that yeah, that would've, I mean, when you jump back on the bike, it does take a little, always takes a little time to kind of get that, that last bit of confidence back.

Yeah. Do you have any regrets from your career? Yeah, I mean, dude, it's hard. It's, it's a yes and it's a no because I've enjoyed this career so much, but, uh, I've been a bit reckless, like with, with the enjoyment. There's been nights where I was partying way too late. The night before the event. Mm-hmm. There was times that I was losing the discipline and focused on the wrong things.

So it's, it's like, in a way, it makes me wanna say like, I wish I had been more disciplined and more on the right track and more willing to say no if the, if people are going for beers or say no, if people are gonna go do some activity, that's gonna maybe put me in a wrong way for, for the contest, whether that's the next day or a few days after.

So I feel like I could have had more success and better results and all of that if I was more driven, but mm-hmm. Then when I look at the guys that didn't enjoy it as much, they're long gone. Like, they're on their own paths. They're not competing, whereas like, I'm still looking forward to every slopestyle event and, and training like, uh, hard to, to push further and, and try to get more wins or try to try to like, make the fans go crazy more, you know what I mean?

Like, I just feel like my enjoyment of the sport has been. One of the most important things for me and the thing that's kept me going, but also the thing that stopped me a few times from being the top level that I can, reaching my, my ceiling. Mm-hmm. If you know what I mean. You get that. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Yeah. But I feel like, yeah, as you said, it's, it's, it's kind of a double-edged sword because yeah, you've got the one side which it, it might have prolonged your career, you know, or made you actually enjoy it more, but then it, it potentially cost you some, some wins and, and some moments that you could have, could have reached.

So it's like what? Yeah. What's at the end of the day, what's more important kind of thing to you, the parting and stuff? If it's in the right moment, I don't think that affects you, but there, there was times where I was being way too reckless. Like when you're peeking out booze the morning of the car, or you have to ride in the evening.

That's, that's reckless. That's unacceptable. What if we had, if we had coaches in the sport, like they would be like. Are you kidding me? Like, you know, so like partying and stuff and, and drinking and hanging with the guys. Like if it's in the right moment, I don't think it hurts, but some of the ones that I have done, what were you asking it tot tell me?

There must be what's the wildest, the wildest, craziest story from a party that, that you have, like there's gotta be some, there's gotta be some big ones there. The wildest and craziest is, is hard to say. We had a pretty crazy one in Berlin this year after the masses of dirt tour where we partied until 2:00 PM the next day.

That was the latest. That was the latest. We went holy one singular night of partying. But that was after a show tour, so that's fair. The specific one that I'm thinking of was in, in Whistler 2022, if I'm not mistaken. I was, it was the night before the event we had a a dinner at Sushi Village. At Sushi Village in Whistler.

You drink so much sake no matter what. So I was like a little bit socked up, and then I went to some bar in Whistler and it was the night before the comp. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna let loose a little bit, but nothing crazy. The comp was like four or 5:00 PM the next day. So I'm like, no, I'm good.

And then unfortunately, some people that knew me or some fans found me there and they started giving me shots and I think it was like Yeager bombs and shit row. And so we're talking the night before, joyride, Yeager, ballman and green shots with fans like. Probably Longhorn, whatever the classic spots in Whistler are.

Yeah. And uh, I just remember waking up the next day, going to the bathroom, there's puke on the walls around the bathroom. I'm puking more. I show up to the riders meeting. The boys are like, bro, you smell like booze. And I'm, why am I even at this riders meeting? I look like such an idiot. And then like, luckily by the contest day, I mean by the time the contest happened, like I was feeling ready to go, but I crashed of my run, bro.

I fucked up the run so bad. So like, I feel like that was a reckless one because I just let my enjoyment get the most of me. I was like, yo, I'm not gonna lay in my bed and stress and, and just lay there with my eyes open, standing at the wall thinking about everything that could go wrong in my run tomorrow.

I'm gonna like go out and hang with people. But then just because you want to hang with people and not stress doesn't mean you have to get completely blackout drunk, you know? So just like, uh, irresponsible behavior on my part. And that was probably the worst one. But, um, over the years in general, partying, 26 tricks, used to have crazy parties, masses of dirt, always crazy parties, a lot of amazing partying stories over the years.

But the ones before the competition day are the ones that should have been left out for sure.

Oh, dude, that's classic. But I mean, yeah, maybe that's like, why, that's also part of why you, you, you know, and like why you got to this point. So it's, yeah, I guess no one will ever know what it would've been like if you didn't have those nights out. So. Um, you know what I mean? You're 29 now, which is still young.

But I guess in a sport like slopestyle, it's not that young, but, uh, is there, has there been any thought as to what you'd wanna do after, after competing? Um, or is that still like kind of too far off? Well, uh, I feel like I have some good years left in me. I feel the durability fading a little bit, which is unfortunate.

Like there are some crashes that I took that you feel it more and you're like, mm-hmm this is five years ago. I wouldn't feel this at all, but not, yeah, so many more ice baths and shit now. Ice bathing like every day, like just way more stretching and everything. So I feel the durability fading. Um, but I still think I got a solid like five years left in me.

I just mm-hmm. Just keep in mind, guys liked Ryan Nyquist, who was booked Joy Ride podium at H 37. Yeah, that was wild. Agu, who's like 38 and riding better than I've ever seen him ride. Unreal. So you like kind of use those older characters that are still progressing and still being the best they can be as inspiration.

So I still think I have, uh, good years left in me, but I am really enjoying doing the hosting stuff and the commentary and everything. Yeah. Especially events like Rampage, uh, and things like that where I know the competitors, the competitors are my homies. I can get some really deep insights with them because I can go and have lunch with them and talk with them and their team or like be up on course with them and give those insights.

And I feel like sometimes the events are missing those insights, you know, because like mm-hmm. These characters, every single character in the sport is super unique. Like, you know, it, you have so many guests, like everyone is like such a unique character, which some sometimes doesn't get to be put on display.

Yeah. So I'm really motivated on doing hosting and projects like that that reveal more. Writer's character and, and really like show the public that these are some epic humans. 'cause I feel like other sports, like F1 and whatever other ones that have so much TV coverage and so much press coverage and press conference, like people really know these athletes personalities.

Whereas in mountain biking sometimes it's just a guy doing crazy guy or girl. Yeah. Crazy shit in the helmet. And you don't know who they are or if they're cool, but if you did, you would be like, way more intrigued and impressed watching. So, um, yeah, I'd love to get into hosting more events, all kinds of events.

Um, I'd like to announce some races with like Rob Warner and stuff 'cause he's such, such, that'd be sick. I gotta, I gotta learn some more, you know, like, uh, like I went to a few different World Cups over the years and, uh, obviously watching and following and things like that. But I feel like, uh, that analysis and stuff, I still gotta learn a little bit more before hopping in the boots for one of those.

But that would be super motivating. And, uh, it seems like people are decently stoked on the, the hype that I bring. But I, I can't help it. It's a skill. It's definitely a skill and not everyone can do it, you know, even if someone knows what they're talking about. Like, it's just like this vibe, you know? Like some people, like Rob for example, the, I can't really put my finger on why he's so good.

Like, I mean, obviously he knows a lot and he knows all riders and like, and he does a lot and he puts a lot into it, but. Other guys that also put a lot into it, and they're just not him, you know, so it's like, it's kind of like that X factor kind of thing. And some people are just, you know, really cut out for it.

And, and for me, like I watch a lot of, um, motocross and Supercross as well, and like, I always watch the, I watch all the American stuff and. I generally don't watch the GPS because of the commentary. Like I just find the commentary and yeah, no offense to them. I just found the commentary like boring and that that's like part of the enjoyment of, 'cause you're watching a Moto for 30 minutes.

Like you, you need some kind of insights. Entertainment, I feel like. What could be cool for, for mountain biking, whether it's slopestyle downhill, anything. Is there something like Drive to Survive? Like they've had four, four Formula One. That's what I was saying. Yeah. That would be so sick to like have, for me personally, I actually like watching that type of thing more than the actual event.

Like, 'cause you really get to know the riders, like what's going through their heads, like what are they thinking, what happened the week before? Like, you know, because that then on contest day, you can actually fully understand, oh, okay, he's not gonna do that well today because he's, he's got an injury or.

Or whatever. Like he's, he, he lost his main sponsor last week or he is got a new bike or whatever it is. But it's, I feel like that'll make things way more interesting for, for people. I agree. I would, I would love it. I think we actually presented the idea, not presented, but uh, had like meetings about that idea a few years ago and, um, I guess Crank Works was just saying it's super expensive to produce and letting me get big company on board.

They can't do a proper production. They said like, uh, hundreds of thousands do of dollars for production, which makes sense. You need a big media team, you need a lot footage, needed a lot of editing. You get a lot of cool things, but I think that would bring the value of everything up. So I think it's gonna happen.

It it, I, I think it's, it's just a matter of time, but I think at some point or another it's, yeah. 'cause the sport is like, even if you're not a mountain biker, like you can't watch and be like, oh, this is boring. Like, it's so entertaining. Like, so I, I think it's just, uh, you know, the sport's pretty young obviously, so we just, uh.

But yeah, at the same time, that's gonna bring potentially other things into the sport, which maybe it's not as free as it is now kind of thing. So I guess there's always, there's always pros and cons, right? Dude. Uh, as a, to end off the podcast, I always ask every guest same question, and that is, what is the meaning of success to you?

Wow. Like, to me, or what? I think like, uh, for, for everyone? Like in general? Uh, no, like to you personally. Like, I mean, it could be anything like, you know, um, but what is to you, like, where you kind of look back and you'll be like, man, I feel like I'm successful with what, with whatever that may be. Whether it's money or, or giving back or whatever it may be.

You know, I think it's all about living the life you wanna live and what, uh, the one issue is like actually figuring out the life you wanna live. Because some kind, you think that it's all about the money, and then you realize that it's not that meaningful or. Or just different things like that. So if you can figure out the life that you wanna live and the one that you experience the most like joy from, and you're able to successfully do that, then I think it's successful.

Because if you're putting a amount of money to it, I don't think it's possible if you're putting a value of this or that, or a result being a champion of this or that. I feel like if you're living the life you wanna live, like in my situation, I'm riding the events that I wanna ride and go to the places that I want to go, hang out with the homies that I want to hang with.

Mm-hmm. Give back in the way that I can. Like, uh, I'm definitely blessed to be living the, the life I wanna live. So I feel like the success in that sense. So, yeah. I mean the, the worst thing you can do is like wake up in the morning and be like, Shayla, I don't wanna do this at all. You know? And some people do that because they think that there is something more important.

And then realize that it's not worth it. So when you're living every day like, this is what I want to do and I'm doing it, then I feel like that's, that's success. What do you think? 100% agree. Yeah, I would say the same thing. I think you, you need to, you need to love, you need to enjoy life. Like we all gonna end up in the same place.

We all gonna die at some point and you know, no amount of money or fame or whatever it is. You can't take that with you. So you know, you need to enjoy every day. And I, I get that you need a certain amount of money, you need a certain amount of things to have a nice life. But there's also a point where I think people, they, you know, they stuck in a job that they hate for, for many, for years and years and years.

To make a certain amount of money so that they can have free time to go and do the things they really wanna do. But, you know, I think being able to do what you really love every day, or at least often is, yeah. I mean, you can't really do much, you know, much more than that. Dude, thanks so much. This is, uh, yeah, it's been, it's been awesome to, to, to get to know you and kind of hear a bit about your story and, um, yeah, I have some, some good, uh, good banter for sure, man.

Been fun. One thing that I, that I, I don't know if you know, so I've got a, a YouTube series, it's called Swapping Lines, which I started about a year, a year ago now, just over a year ago. And every episode's with a new rider. And I've done, I've done seven episodes now. I did one with Aaron Gwynn, Greg Manar, um, als.

I did Whistle last year, and I, I've never done one with a slope side. Sky, but it could be cool. Uh, I don't know. I have no idea, like if you'd be interested or not, but um, like from sometime next year, it could be quite cool to do something. I don't know. We'd have to like figure out a way to, uh, tell me more about the, tell me more about the, the idea of the show.

So. It's a, there's three parts. So one is the podcast, which we've already done, and then other, then there'll be a behind the scenes video kind of log style, and then the main edit, which is like an action edit. So they've all been down Riders downer races until now. But I've been kind of toying with idea of, of doing something outside of the Donald scene, like doing some in Euro or slopestyle or just a different discipline, you know?

And obviously it wouldn't be, I wouldn't be riding slopestyle, but we'd have to find a way. I mean, you've got a big bike as well. Um, so we would've to figure out a way to kind of fit that together, but then would be like an action edit, but then you could obviously throw in some tricks at the same time.

So something like that. But I can send you, I can send you, um, I'll figure you the playlist. Could we maybe do it? Oh no, you're in Munich now. You said you're from South Africa. I was thinking you don't think we could find somewhere on that farm, whether it's at the dirt jumps or something to like. Back and forth because there's some downhill lines there.

There's full dirt jumps there, there's obviously the dark best jumps. Well there certainly there, there's a lot to film there. I'm just thinking because when is that, is it in Feb or is it later now? Uh, it's later now. Yeah. 'cause I, I'm gonna be there, I'm actually leaving on Friday, but I'm, I'm only gonna be there till the end of Jan this year.

Let, yeah, I'll give you some thought. Um, and I'll send you, I'll send you a link as well, so you can have a look and just kind of get a vibe. But it's kind of been like an action, action writing edit. But I think like having a mix of some Slope Star stuff in there could be quite cool. It won't be on a Slope Star course, but like, you know, kind of incorporating that into the writing and I'd be down to try and, uh, try and plan it out.

Six. Sweet. I will, yeah, I'll send you some links and then we just need to figure out when and where. Um, obviously you have quite a busy schedule. I know you, you will be in Europe at some point for nines, I'm assuming. Yeah, there's, there's, uh, this FMB new Slope style. We don't actually didn't talk about that at all.

The, the slope style is like changing their formats now to like the Oh, really? For league. Whereas we have five regular seasoned events. It's kinda like a, uh, like a American sports style. We have five regular seasoned events, which is crank forks, rule crank forks, Christchurch, and then two unannounced European events.

Okay. I speculate. One is potentially a Red Bull roof ride, which I would hope for, 'cause that event is electric. And then, um, one other one at least. So there's at least two events that I have to be there for sure. Okay. There, masters of Dirt Tour happening next year. I'm not sure how involved I'm going to be with that because that was really taxing on the body last year, even though we had some of the sickest moments of all time.

So still like, uh, planning that schedule for, for next year. So let's keep in touch about it. Okay. And you, you in California, right? Yeah, right now I'm in. Um, 'cause I might be coming over to Whistler as well next year. Um, so that's another option. Like, I don't know, you know, when and if you are only gonna be there for like Crank Works or if you'll be there at another time as well.

So Yeah, I'm sure there's, there's a, if possible I always try to get more time than just the crank works in whistle. Okay. So hopefully they can do that again, depending on Cool. Sweet. Yeah. Then, uh, yeah, let's, let's keep, keep in touch and see when we see if and when we can make it happen, for sure. Because I'll be sick.

Uh, yeah man. Thanks so much. If you guys enjoy this clip, please like and subscribe and to watch the full episode, click the link right up here. That was iconic.