He took the bike and a piece of wire and he put it around the seat post and around the headset, and then he just wound it up and the seat came up and it was held there in place by that highly strong wire. And I did the race like that. Johan pot er. AKA potty is one of the friendliest guys you will meet.

He is a South African mountain biking legend, having won nine national championships between downhill and Enduro. He has multiple wins and podiums at events in Europe and has been racing World Cups for over a decade. So the Boston Ferris in the world Potty is also one of the top MTB skills coaches in South Africa hosting multiple youth camps each year, but it does not end there.

He has his own coffee shop brand and is now a lines coach for the YT Mob downhill race team. I just set my goal that I wanted to be a world champion one day, that's 2000 euros for the whole season, for five and half months. Tell him what happened to our gazebo. We bought a gazebo from from AGAs as well.

We put the gazebo up, obviously charged some shelter from the rain, went up for a practice run and we came back and no more gazebo. And as he puts the thing on, there's just this massive explosion sparks everywhere. This guy jumping out the out the way, shouting Jesus fucking. We were so tired. I remember, and we just looked underneath the van, saw the exhaust was lying on the floor and we was like, oh, let's just sort it in the morning.

You know, like he's gotta sleep. But I definitely think if I had proper preseason, let's say for two, three years in a row, that I could have been a top 20 rider. And I just remember him going to that hole completely dead, stopping looking at us and going, it is American accent. Wow, that's penis. Now that you've seen the ins and outs of a big team, how much difference do you think it makes being on a team like that?

At first? Guys, I need to ask you a huge favor to please like and subscribe. And if you're feeling generous, drop a comment. This makes such a huge difference to the YouTube algorithm, and at this stage, we need all the help we can get because the bigger the podcast gets, the bigger the guests. Back to this episode.

So, uh, potty, uh, I'll start off with a, with an easy one. Who is the goat of downhill

of downhill or downhill in South Africa? Well, okay, let's, uh, let's not talk 'cause it sucks because the natural goat is also South African, so that actually sucks. So, I mean, come on Greg. Definitely Greg. Really? I thought you were gonna say Sam Hill. I mean Greg is the goat on paper. Definitely. Yeah. Look, I've got a story for you at SHS this year.

Teo was walking around there with a signature on his jersey and I thought, whose signature will Teo out on his jersey? Really? And looks here and I'm like, Teo, whose signatures on your jersey? And he goes, Samuel. I'm like, okay, cool. I have that one my jersey also.

So it is, he's the king. Okay. Another serious question. Who's better? You're me. That's, uh, I thought a tough question, but a hundred percent me, for sure. So Potti and I have known each other for a few years, so you'll, you'll get used to it. There's been one or two competitions between us and, uh, maybe. Okay.

So let's, let's rewind a little bit. Um, we met in 2010, I think, or 20 2009 actually. When did you start, when did you actually start? Probably in 2009. 2010. You started doing good at Solaris? I think that race. You got a podium? Me, you, John. Ah, okay. Yeah. Did you know me before that or no? I'm pretty sure I, I knew of you.

I just remember, I mean, you were a player, but I wouldn't have spoken to you anyway. You know, I just remember the one time I wanted to, I wanted to go and ride with you or like, I wanted to train with you or like, just go do laps with you. And I asked you and I was like, oh, could I join you for some shuttles or whatever?

And you was like, oh, I'm so busy. Sorry. Can't do it. I mean, I mean, come on. I mean,

oh man. So yeah, that's, uh, yeah. Well things have changed. So now, now it's the other way around. Yes. Now I wanna ride with you though, I mean, is No. Um, but, uh, so before, I mean, rewinding even further back like. Where you, when did you start? What was your first year and like, how did you actually get into downhill?

Because, uh, I mean, unlike now where we're sitting in, we actually in Liang where we've got a nice bike park behind us. Back in South Africa, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't the case. It was a bit of a, you had to take a shovel and No, we had Magic Forest. An interesting story. I mean, I grew up in East London and uh, in 98 my dad got, uh, transferred to, uh, Cape Town and yeah, we moved there end of 98.

I walked around in, in a shopping mall in Tiger Valley and then CNA, I saw a Mountain Bike Action magazine and I was like super intrigued by this because even in East London, I like to ride my mountain bike, which is just like a supermarket mountain bike, you know, round. And, uh, Pacific Blue was my favorite series that show the cops in the bicycles.

Oh, I watched that thing religiously. And uh, yeah. And then the magazine I just saw there were sports like this, you know, and, um. By chance, I was at school with a friend of mine and his older brother did Daniel, and he started telling me about the races that's happening and where And HT phone and I mean, there was no WhatsApp back in those days or what?

What year was this? The year 2000. 2000? Yeah. Yeah. It was the year 2000. I got my, I was first, let's call it proper mountain bike, which I started mountain biking with in the Christmas of 99, which is obviously at the end of that year. And then I think in March, 2000, I did my first downhill race in Eden. Um, in Stellenbosch.

Downhill race. Downhill race. So com. Let's just do a little comparison. How does that compare to where we are now? No, you can't, but back then, I mean, there was. Extreme drops, big rock gardens. Um, it was a very technical track. And if you go there now, a trail bike's too much. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

But, uh, yeah, and it's crazy. I mean, we pay now on 600 grand entry fees for a race. Now. I paid 30 grand for that race to enter. It's 25 years ago. And, uh, yeah, that's basically how Daniel started. I've been racing since then. And you were on a, what bike were you on? It was a rally. Mt tracks. Yeah. And I upgraded that thing so much.

And the frame broke in the end and had it welded up and all that. Like, didn't you tell me a story where your bike broke and then you, you tied it together with, with wire. Oh, that was a couple years later. That was an actual downhill bike where that happened to. Yeah. 'cause the sea tube was like. Um, it wasn't fixed on the, it looked like the old intense M1.

I dunno if you remember that. The C tube was just in the air fixed to the mainframe. But, but the was energy. Very beautiful design. It was super beautiful. No, no jokes. Um, and I just remember coming over the finish line, doing a nice endo and falling back on my seat and just hearing the loudest noise I've ever heard in my life.

Ah, and the seat was just down on the tire. And then one of my friends, he was very handy. He took the bike and a piece of wire and he put it around the seat post and around the headset, and then he just wound it up and the seat came up and it was held there in place by that highly strong wire. And I did the race like that.

And that was the first race that I won in my category.

You actually won like that? I won the category, yeah. And first time ever. Dude. Um, yeah, it was crazy. I mean, all these stories from the years, I mean, bikes have come a long way. I mean, bikes were shit back then. You know, like if you think about, if you Google now a Daniel bike from that time and you look at the geometry, like, how did the guys race that?

But then you go on YouTube and you see the videos and like, they rode it fast. It's actually insane when I look back at what those guys did like, unreal, unreal. Everyone. I mean, obviously the level now is, is crazy, but I feel like it's, I would still rather be racing, I think now than back then on those bikes.

Like I. Like the, I don't know, I'd be scared. Imagine coming down here on one of those. I mean, you are, you just looked at a rock with your derail and it was into the spokes, you know what I mean? And then Yes, then you had a new, it was crazy. And now, I mean, not too long ago, I've, I've got Thera axis on my trail bike and I landed straight onto a brick wall with the derailer.

It wasn't even flinching insane, whereas back then you just pedaled too hard and the chain tension pulled Thera into the spokes, you know, outta the vibe. So it was like, no, it come a long way. You a fair ride and suddenly your derailers just in pieces and you like what happened? A hundred percent. Yeah.

It's, it's, uh, that's come a long way. So what, so that was, how did things progress then? Like, you know, because obviously. Between then and when you did your first year, like full year overseas, there was quite a few years and obviously you won some races between then. So what happened in that, in those years?

Yeah, so af after the, that rally, I got a mongoose, which is a, I would say a more higher quality bike, but it was still a hundred mil cross country bike essentially. And, uh, I also broke that frame and, and upgraded the bike and got at the frame, welded up. And, you know, I got to a point where I felt like I was, the bike was holding me back and um, you know, you don't know much as a 14-year-old boy, you know, but, um, I really wanted a downhill bike and I was showing real interest into the sport.

And like, later that year or the, the middle of the following year, um, I was sponsored by action cycling back then, and my dad said he's gonna take my bike in for service there. So he took it, took it into service there, and, uh. A couple of days later, a week later or whatever, uh, he came to fetch me out of rugby practice.

I was, I was at rugby practice. That's a big deal in South Africa. Yeah. I was playing rugby in school and um, yeah. And my dad came to pick me up halfway through practice and I was like, that's weird. And he's like, no, we have to go fetch the bike. Obviously action cycling was in Cape Town and we went an all in suburbs, you know, it was a good 20, 25 minutes drive.

And when I got there, the mechanic was working there at one of those downhill bikes. It was called an extension. And uh, his was p parked right there against the cupboard and there was another one there. And I just got onto it and started bouncing on the suspension. And they all looked at me and I was like, okay, that's weird.

And. I saw this bike at the same tires as Maya Mon Goon. And I was like, okay, it's weird. But anyway, you know, and then I was like, Hmm, it's got the same crank as my bike. And then I clicked, my dad had gotten me the frame and they built the parts over and I've got a Daniel bike now and I was so happy about it.

And then my first downhill race, then I did my first, this was in 2003. And at the beginning of 2003 I did my first national, my mom drove me up to Pretoria at Harti. Mm-hmm. Where we recently also kind of race, you know. And uh, um, I remember coming third last overall there, it was crazy, crazy track to me.

Rocky steep. I beat two strokes, that's all. It was a horrible, horrible trip. And um, the end of that year, there was the last National Inkai in Cape Town. And uh, there I actually did pretty well. I was like, I can't remember actually what the result was, but it was like top 30 overall or something as a junior and.

I would say since I've got the downhill bike, you know, my riding sort of exponentially increased then because it, it just allowed me to, you know, get a bit better. And, uh, and the following year, 2004, I actually, at the end of 2003, I got this thing where I thought to myself, okay, I gotta start training. You know, so my downhill bike was my only, the only bike I had.

And we lived about seven, eight kilometers from a place called Magic Forest, which was the only like, let's call it riding spot near where I stayed. Mm-hmm. And I could pedal there on my bike. Um, it wasn't, I would say officially a mountain bike spot, but I wasn't frowned upon to ride there, you know what I mean?

People were riding there and there were crazy steep upwards. And I pedaled up those things with my downhill bike. I remember like tasting blood in the back of my throat and you know, you don't know, you just push as hard as you can and, and like seeing double getting to the top. And I had to chill there for like 20 months before I could do a downhill.

And, uh, yeah. And at the beginning of that following year, we had a race there at Magic Forest, and I won by far and. Like, I was so surprised and one of my friends, Darren, to this day is still convinced that I took the wrong, the wrong route. And I know I didn't, I was gonna say, I was gonna say Darren had something to say about that.

Yeah. Yeah. Darren, if you're looking at this, I didn't take the wrong route Anyway. Yeah. So that was it. And then the first national that year, I got a fifth overall, which was obviously now a really good result, you know? So then I started building further on that and just to start up and the year after 2000 and, um, five, same thing.

Won my first national that year, um, as a final year of junior at. And um, yeah, the year after that, I won my first s champs 2006, my first year Elite, um, in Peter Marburg. Um, yeah. And then it just progressed from there. And then, yeah, 2009 I won. So Champs again, 2010. That's obviously when you started doing well and, uh, yeah.

And then our story begins, you know, so when, when did the, 'cause I know you went overseas, was it 20 2005 the first time? So my first time overseas was, uh, world champs as a junior 2004. Okay. In, and then, uh, the year after, um, I was still a junior, but I raced my first World Cup in Villin in 2005, and then the one, the weekend after that in Schladming.

Okay. So I was my first two World Cups. Um, I can't even remember what the result was. I didn't qualify like it was just, you know, horrible, but great experience and yeah. And then since then, you know, I got a job at Tram in South Africa. I was the representative for like, let's call it the southern area, South Africa.

And, uh, yeah, my, my boss at the time, his, um, son was also racing downhill, so, you know, he, he knew about me and he knew I was doing well. So he gave me two months, um, unpaid leave every year during the winter. Um, and back then, um, I. The cycle industry in, in South Africa sort of took a dip in winter, you know, just 'cause of the weather and stuff.

Nowadays there's a lot more events and stuff, so the industry's way bigger, you know, so even through winter there's good business, but that, back then it was sort of quiet so you could let me go, which is pretty cool. So I'd save up what works, save up money, and then use that to, to travel to Europe. And then 2007, I did a two months on my own.

Like that was a tough year, just sleeping on hard wooden benches, sleeping on train stations, um, dragging my bag. Actually a Leo gang, four or five Ks from the train station that's the size of a toilet all the way to where the down is. And you rock up there, you don't know where to go. Um, but I mean, yeah, you, you meet people and you know, nowadays we just WhatsApp someone and you Yeah.

Pick you up from the airport. It's crazy. Um, yeah. And that's, um, that's sort of how it started, you know, the overseas racing. Was there a point or was it just kind of a slow evolution when need you think or know like. This is what I want to do. I want to be a pro down racer. I would say almost from the start, like I enjoyed mountain biking so much and I couldn't picture really doing anything else.

And it's all I, I dreamt about. And that also takes me back to the youth camps now that I do. 'cause I can relate to how those kids feel and how they, you know, on holiday now and they just wanna ride their bikes and that's all they want to eat, sleep, and, and just ride bikes every day. Um, that's how I felt as a kid.

Like if I was on every year for my birthday, I wanted my dad just to drop me off at Eden Forest in Stellenbosch. I got a backpack full of water and, and some snacks and I just wanted to go ride there the whole day, push up, do sections, just ride my bike. That's all I wanted to do. And um, yeah, and I just set my goal that I wanted to be world champion one day and, um, it didn't happen yet.

Still trying. Well, I mean, what, Greg won world champs at like 39? I think so, yes. But he also won a World Cup at 19, so a bit of a difference there, you know, and a couple in between. Um, but yeah, so, um, yeah, that's sort of, that was my goal and you know, thinking back, you know, is there anything I could have done different, maybe, maybe could have tried harder to make some more money, um, somewhere along the line.

But then again, the more money you try and make, the more time it takes from training and riding. So, you know, that's where I've got massive respect for you and what you achieved. But, um, I'm happy with how far I came in my career. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And, um, yeah, so, uh, like we met our kind of journey comes together.

Then, um, you went overseas a few times, then 2009, I think we met the first time when basically you just like gave me the bat when I tried to go ride with you. And then I think not really, just like everyone wanted to ride with me, so I had to like cut it somewhere, you know what I mean? So you were just part of everyone.

Well obviously you gotta, you gotta aim for the best or you wanna be the best and you were the best in, in the country at that point. So yeah, I wanted to ride with the best and here comes this guy, no one's. So we, um. Yeah, we met 2009 and then, and then 2010 I got, I got fifth at SHS and I think then you finally, no, first I got a podium at, at Solaris, as we mentioned earlier.

And then we were on the local, like regional series. No one was there. Right. That's, yeah. I think, um, I think that's what, uh, and then I got fifth at sa champs that year, um, at national Champs. And then, and then I was like, I was good enough to, to do some shuttles with you. Then we started shuffling together.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I felt very, I felt very, I must say I felt very honored. Like I was like, I felt quite privileged at that point. Yeah. I also felt annoyed, like just,

um, and then, and then how many years was it? Zero point, 0.0 point until you finally got a port license. Don't get to that just yet. Then I, then I. Do, do you have any idea how many races, more races I would've won if it wasn't for you. Well, at this point now you two thinks, but, uh, we, we, so 2010 and then end of that year, I decided that I wanted to go overseas.

Um, which in hindsight, I wasn't really ready to race overseas. Like, because you think when you do well in South Africa that now you can go overseas and gonna smoke the guys, and that's not the case at all, as we know. That doesn't really happen. Yeah. But anyway, we, I had this idea I wanted to go overseas and then I.

Like, what do you think? 'cause I try, I needed someone to go with, and I knew that you had been. And so we, myself and my parents thought, okay, who could you go with that would be someone good? And obviously you had a bit of experience and you were a good rider. And I was like, well what about potty? And so we asked you, but I remember when I first asked you, you weren't that keen.

Yeah. Well, it's not that I wasn't keen, I would say it's just I was in a, I think I was in a comfort zone with my current job. I had a company car, you know, I was earning a salary, I was young, um, you know, to all of a sudden just throw a life changing thing in front of someone. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

What's this kid doing? You know? And then, you know, I spoke to like one or two people and then I was just lying in bed at night thinking about the situation. And it just took me back to my dream and my goal I had. And I thought to myself, you know, if there's, if, if I'm gonna make it one day, then this is my chance.

And that's when I made the decision to, um, hand in my resignation and then go to you guys and say, yeah, let's do it. 'cause I mean, you guys would've supplied the van, which happened. And I had a couple of contacts, people we could stay and knew more or less how to get to the races, et cetera. So, you know, it was like a, a good combo, I'd say.

And, uh, I mean, it was a good year in the end, dude. It was a, this was a wild year. We had wild start. We had a lot of adventures, but that's just, so talking about the van, the van I think cost about 5,000 pounds if I'm not four and 5,000, four and a half, 5,000 pounds. It was a 1994 Persia tbo for anyone that knows about anything about cars.

And we had a budget. I made a budget. So I was at that point, what was I 20? I was, I was 20. Yeah. Yeah. You turned 21 on that trip. I turned 21 on that trip at the McDonald's. And you turned 24 on that trip. Well, I was 24 actually, which is crazy because now I'm 34. I'm 38. Like what? Anyway, uh, our budget, my total budget excluding the van was 40,000 rand per person for five and a half months in Europe.

It's like one race now. Like, like does anyone, I mean any Europeans that have be like, that's just ridiculous. That's 2000 euros for the whole season, for five and a half months. And that is for food racing? A combination, race entries, bike parts, bike tires, lift tickets. Like how, how did, how did we make that work?

Like, I don't know. I mean, they always say there's not much inflation in Europe, so like, I don't know. Um, but I mean, fair enough. It probably was about 13, 14. Ran to the Euro back then. Yeah, it was, it was, it wasn't 20 like now, but still it was, we, we ate, I remember we ate like. Past that to tomato sauce, rice and sauce, everything, anything to tomato sauce, p jam, we, we bought, we weren't very nutritious in the beginning, to be honest.

So it, we get this van, um, and we are in the uk and uh, our first trip was to Fort William, which you will, I'm sure, remember. Um, absolutely. First of all, we, we got kitted out. We got eight pound sleeping bags. From Asda, was it Asda? Argos. Argos, sorry. Eight pound, which we never washed once in the five and a half months that we slept in the van.

Disgusting. Um, bearing in mind, we are riding our bikes. We're sweating like the, the band. Oh man. It's, it's actually when I think back now, and we had to pay for showers. Do you remember? Which we didn't want to pay for, so we just didn't shower at one point. I think I did four days. I think we did more than once, four days.

And it was like two. And riding every day. And riding. Yeah. Okay. But in cold, we didn't really sweat that much for William. Well, yeah. Fort William. Fair enough. Well, we went to Fort William. Okay. When did the, when did the car break down? On the way. Okay. When was the, should I say when was the first time it broke down on the way to Fort William?

When we had the situation with the battery. Was that the first on the way there still? Yes, already on the way. Uh, so like this story that's, so that's when we had to like rev the van to get it past the air bubble. No, no. But we didn't know about this yet. No, no. We didn't know about the bleeding. Oh, yes. We just figured out that if you rev the shit out of it.

No, no, no. I remember we drove to Fort William first. No, we drove to, um, your aunt, not, not Fort William. Um, no, we went to Fort William, then back to Glenco. To Glenco. But we only when, when we got to Fort William, that's when the problem started. The first time the, the van wouldn't start in the morning. Oh, it started, so we started the van and it, and then it died.

And then we tried to start it, and then it, it was, and it took ages and the vans wouldn't start. And eventually it started and then we figured out that there was, that there was air in the fuel system, but we didn't, we didn't know how we could solve this, but we just knew the first string in the morning it started.

And then you had to build momentum in the engine to get it past the air bubble. Tell the viewers. So bearing in mind, we charging our, our cell phones and laptops and whatever, um, on the, on the battery. So every morning we would need to start the van. Even if we were sleeping in it. We need to start the van to charge the battery.

Of course, now we are in a place like at a race for example, where there's a lot of other people camping. Start the van and rev blacks just rev crap out of the van everywhere. And just, I remember the one day, so I started the van, we were in Glenco and I put my foot down and, and then you'd hear the air coming into the system going and all those dies.

And then it went box, and then it would go again. And then brought to you, you'd tap me, you tapped me on the shoulder and you're like, Stefan. Just, just look out the window. No, that was in Ford. William and I looked out the window and I couldn't see the other cars. It's just black and everyone's like going like, what is going?

And it's like eight o'clock in the morning and we just like,

and it's so loud. Tell 'em what happened to our gazebo. We bought a gazebo from, from Allgas as well. Super cheap. It was what it cost like 10 bucks or 15 pounds or something. That's super cheap. And then, yeah, Glenco. The weather was so horrible. I mean, the race got canceled in the end because a table flew into a car's windshield.

But yeah, we, we put the gazebo up, obviously to have some shelter from the rain went up for a practice run and we came back and no more gazebo. And when I say no more gazebo, couldn't even see where it went. And then it was down in the valley right far, like, and we just left it there. It was about 200 meters away from the car.

And the Australian guy came to us and just said, yo mate, it's down there. And we were like, what? Dude? Like we, we had it for like, not even a day. We used it for half a day. Yeah. And this was our first experience. Yeah. Like together in Europe. Like this was our first thing. We went up there and we went to Fort William and we were there for two weeks.

I think we rode, we rode one day in two weeks because the, the lift was shut every day because of the winds being up to 147 kilometers an hour. Yeah. So it was 80 miles an hour and it was pissing rain for two weeks straight. And I remember we went to Glenco. I think we did one or two runs. Yeah. And then they canceled.

They canceled. Oh. We were just like, what's going on in this place? I remember, uh, uh, they, the reason they canceled the wind was so strong that it blew a bench, a wooden bench across the parking lot, into a car's windscreen. And then they were like, okay, should probably canceled the race. Yeah. Um, and obviously need, needless to say, I don't think Fort William went very well for us.

Certainly not for me. I don't know how you did it. Fort William. Can you remember? I can't really remember. I can't remember, but I just remember. But you go rain, but I, I also, I dislocated my shoulder about six weeks before that, which wasn't ideal. But I remember that thinking that if this is downhill, then I don't know what I've been doing because like that was one of the hardest races.

I mean five minute that track. Five minute track after coming riding in South Africa, riding on and yeah, just, yeah. Coming from South Africa and straight into your first proper long World Cup track experiences and experience, it's like a different sport, nevermind the conditions. Yeah. And we didn't, I mean, I didn't have any, I mean, not that you need mud tires there, but I mean we didn't have like mud tires and spares and I mean I had, I had one wheel set and one set of tires that was on my bike.

Yeah, I mean you, yeah, it's a different sport. You can't do well at home and think you're gonna come do well, yeah, it's a different fitness, it's a different, your bike is set up completely different and nah, it's a completely different. And then from there we went to Leo Gang, I think. Yeah. And that's when the real fun began.

Yes. So I, I'll, I'll. I'll say it from my perspective because I was sleeping. So we drive to Liang and that's three days. It took us three days. Oh yeah, yeah. Thursday to your aunt's house. Next day until the exhaust broke off. We don't spoil the story. Oh, sorry. You're telling the story. Well, so was my aunt's house the first day.

That was eight hours. And then we drove to the bo. To the sudo. Took the ferry. Ferry. Did we take the ferry off? Yeah, yeah. Took the ferry. Then through France, into Germany. Then we drive through France, and now by the time we got there, it was late. You were driving and it was like one O2, two o'clock in the morning?

No, we were already in Germany by then, weren't we? In France? No, no, no. Germany. We already pushed through France, Germany. We basically just saw we could get, I think the plan was to get there, to get to Ligang that day, but it was, we were gonna just drive it through the night. But then I remember it was super late, one or two in the morning, and I woke up and heard.

I was sleeping and I just heard this, like a horrible sound. And I said, I said to you, what's going on? And I think you said at the time I was like, I think the exhaust was, yeah, something. Something's broken at the bottom of the car. And we pulled into a truck stop. We were so tired, I remember. And we just looked underneath the van, saw the exhaust was lying on the floor.

And we was like, oh, let's just sort it in the morning. You know, like he's gotta sleep. The next morning there was a knock on the window, it was the truck driver that couldn't get, that could get passed, but he decided to knock on our windows and he didn't understand any English. So we just said, look underneath the car.

And he looked underneath the car and he went, ah. And then he just drove past us. But Joel, so we obviously being asked, we just broke it off properly, loaded it in the car and put it in the back of the car. And that's how we drove for the next, uh, what, two months? Two and a half months I think. Yeah. We were exhausted.

Sorry. Yes. We even, we just starting out here and um, I was exhausted after that trip of Puty jokes. Yeah, jokes. It was a tough one. But, uh, so we put it in and then that was, that was when did the, when did the battery, no, that was at the very beginning. That was on the way to Fort William, even at that gas station.

And he, what happened? Why wouldn't the car start? Because the alternator wasn't charging the battery. And then the, we went to that, the guy we couldn't understand and then we went to the mechanic and he was speaking English and he was speaking English. Yeah, just and, uh, that guy was just a loose wire and he tightened that, and then the battery started charging.

So tell them about the what, what happened? When the guy tried to help us start our car,

this poor guy. So now the battery's flat and we need to get someone to jumpstart us, obviously. And the more people we ask, they just ignore us. People in the uk Yeah, not very, we asked a few people and they just said no. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my mechanics, the mechanics working in our teams on the George Reuben.

Rude, rude guys, you guys, um, anyway, so this one guy was like, you could see he wasn't really wanting to help us, but he, he said, okay, cool. So anyway, he pulls his car up next to the van and there's a red and a black, a positive and a negative obviously. And then in, in his car there was just a black and a black or a black and a green or something.

Mm-hmm. Hmm. And he attached it to our van and then he attached it to his van and he attached the last one. And I looked at him and I'm like, are you sure that's the positive? And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the right one. And as he puts the thing on, there's just this massive explosion sparks everywhere, this guy jumping out the, out the way, shouting Jesus fucking Christ.

And, and now his car doesn't start because the wires all jungle like a flip. We broke his car out. Luckily we got his car sorted out and uh, yeah, we got the van started in the end. I don't actually remember. I think with his help, we just swapped around the thing, but luckily we sorted him and he drove off and, and, and we could luckily drive to the, the mechanic and, and he sorted us out.

But that was a very, very funny situation. Well, not at the time, let me tell. Not at the time. Afterwards. Afterwards, yes. Like foreign country, like, and, and then people think like, this is already, we've already had all these, these things go wrong in the first trip, basically. Yeah. Just to Fort William and to Ligang.

That's all we did four and a half months left. Well, it's just getting started. Um, so we into Ligang and remember you qualified in Neo gang, was it that? Yeah. I think you qualified on your silver Mongo. Yes, yes, yes. You got 52nd if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Which was at that, I mean, back, we, Norton.

Was it? That was you? No, that was, that was a couple years later. He didn't start that early. Oh, okay. No, no. Okay. Yes. Sorry. Yeah. Dak. Oh no, sorry. That's a couple years later. That's a couple years later. True, true, true. Actually, very, A lot of years later. Sorry, I'm confused now. Um, that's where we were hanging with a Australians.

Yes. What are their names again? Mick and Stewart. Yes. Yeah. Um, how's the boys? Uh, and then, I can't remember. I can't remember all, all the races, but I can say after that, I don't know where we were going, but I, first of all, our van, it was very cold at night, um, because it was Europe in summer, which is basically worse than South African winter.

Uh, and it wasn't very well insulated, so we just decided to duct tape. Everything. Like we duct taped the window frames, we duct taped the vents, we duct taped everything just to insulate everything. Um, do you remember, you wanna tell 'em when, uh, when one of us drove under a bridge that was a little bit too low?

One of us? Yeah. We drove under a bridge that was too low and the two air vents at the top, just, it was the loudest sound ever just smashed off. We thought the whole roof was gone. Yeah. And then we had two open vents, so we took pieces of top, cut them out, put it over, and we ducked. That closed. We literally just topped.

And every now and then it would come open. And then you had, so on the highway, I remember me driving and then you said,

and then you had to stop and duck evolving again. And we just left it like we even sold the van. Like that top like mean what you, where do you get new those things? You know what I mean? Do you remember the, so we, at this point now, we'd, we'd figured out about the, the air and the fuel and that we could bleed it.

Your uncle showed us the bleeding? Yeah. It's like a little pump, basically. Yeah. So every morning we'd bleed it air out and then the van would be fine. But every now and then it would just randomly die in traffic and normally in traffic as as would happen. And then someone had to run out, bleed it in the middle of the street and get it going again.

It was super embarrassing. Picture this, you're like in an intersection and there's cars everywhere backed up in both directions. And suddenly this old, crappy van stops in the middle of with a UK number plate, and then one guy jumps out, pops the bonnet is like. Pumping and diesel is pissing everywhere and literally pissing everywhere.

Literally pissing all over the street. But, but I mean, we got the process quite fast at a stage. We got like really cheat. Didn't you know, we had our little eight, little eight waiting there. Yeah. Waiting on the dash man. It was like crazy guitar actually. Do you remember the, what about the, the fire in the, in the glove box?

Yeah. The, the glove box started smoking. Oh yeah. Okay. So rewind. We, we had another problem is that the, first of all, I don't know why, but the rear lights and the front lights of the car were on a separate switch. So already there'd been some, some sketchy stuff done to the van before we got it. But when, then I remember we kept blowing every time we had the lights on and the windscreen wipers at the same time, we kept blowing fuses.

Yes, yes, yes. And obviously in Europe you have that quite a lot because it rains pretty much constantly. So, so we got new fuses, put it in, blew again. It blew again. Blew again, blew again until we decided to override the problem with a lot of tinfoil. We just shoved tinfoil in there and made it work. But the tinfoil, one time we were on the highway and smoke suddenly starts, smoke starts coming outta the, the golf box and the tinfoil got so hot.

Yeah. That it started burning inside the freaking lovelock. Yeah. And then I don't think, like, we literally just put it out and then put the turn four back in and came on going. That just worked. Yeah. No, we made it, I mean, Gary from Suspension Center, he in the end helped us with a friend of his to um. Weld the exhaust system back on in Switzerland.

We got a free, someone welded I exhaust in for free. For free in Switzerland. We gave 'em a box of chocolates, remember? Yeah. And, uh, I just remember it being way quieter. Dude, you, the thing sounded like a fricking truck. Yeah. The whole year. Yeah. But you got used to it. But everyone knew us. I feel like that year with that van, everyone knew that van.

The hood is coming.

Um, I mean, we've, we've painted a rather gloomy picture, but, uh, we had some, we had some actually some good results. Uh, yeah. No, it was, was a, you got your first, what was it your first win? No. Or second? No, no I didn't. Oh yeah, you won in Stein, the Austrian Cup. Oh yeah. No, you won Iman as well. And Iman after that.

Yeah. And you got a podium. I was, I was, I, I could never forget my first win there in Steiner, Rena. It was like, couldn't believe it when Boris, Ted left really good rider was in the hot seat. And I came down and yeah, just saw my time and I was like, whoa. I won. Remember in Europe, Steiner, Rena, it was over six minutes.

Yes, the track. And as I can remember correctly, I beat you by 21 seconds. That is confirmed. You beat me by a long way. I thought there was something wrong with the time. Holy moly. But it was over six minutes. And I remember you did the whole track and at the end you, you, you could see the finish line right there.

And instead they took you left and they made you pedal like, I don't know, that's such a long drive. One minute in the other direction. It was in Euro stage, like, yeah. Anyway, um, and Ana. We were on the podium together. That was actually one of, I would say, one of my career highlights. That was cool. Like, that was so cool.

But I crossed the finish line and I saw you running to me, and I was so confused as to why are you running to me? Did you win? But yeah, then you were obviously in the hot seat and, and then I Yeah, you were, you beat me by point something again, obviously was No, no, they're not. Again, that was one of the first ones.

But, uh, of meeting, um, yeah, we were on the podium together and then the next day. Was maybe the worst day of the whole trip. Oh yeah. When we got stomach issues or something. Yeah, we got food poisoning the next day. Oh no, no. We got a bug because we drank the river water Because you said it was fine to drive.

So we, we get, we think we are rich now because we got prize money. And funny enough, you won more prime prize money. 'cause I won Elman now in 2016, five years later. And I got less prize money than you got in 2011. Yeah. Crazy. But we thought we were rich, so we went out, we got a steak dinner. Yep. And then the next day we were man down, man down sick as a dog down.

And no one, no one was there. We were just still hanging out in the parking lot. Yo. I mean, where, where should we go? We've got nowhere to go, man. Um, I'm trying to think now. There was something else, there was something else that happened as well, that trip. But what about, uh, obviously all the South Africans came over.

Mariska came and stayed with us. We had a cross country girl, Marissa, coming to stay with us, uh, in the van, but she ended up sleeping outside because the van smelled bad. It was too disgusting, smelled so bad. Shame. We couldn't offer a better place, really. Our prize money was, uh, finished by then, but, uh oh no.

Good year. Actually. We walked away with a sponsorship from Canfield that year. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I mean, PLO was a good race for me also, somehow, although World Cup Guy or a lot of World Cup guys were there, I was in the podium with Bruney that year. And that when Bru Cup? Yes. And that's when Bruney started making his name that year as a junior.

What happened? What happened? You were on the podium with Bruney that year and Bruney is, what do you mean what happened? Bruney went on to be one of the greats. So what happened to you? Are you talking about me?

Yeah. I don't know, man. I remember Matt who Coin was there, and Louis Buchanan. You all made? All depends. Yeah. And uh, yeah, there was a whole, it was a good race there. Good track. Also polo's a good place. Still one of the best tracks I think. Yeah. Um, so we were back on 26 inches then. Yeah. Do you remember what we did to our, what you, you had this idea to do to the shock to make the head angle slacker on the bike.

I did it to my giant as well. Yeah. Put a piece of rubber. Yeah, we And wind the coil in. Yeah. We so reduce the travel. So explain how that, how that works. So our head angles were so steep. My head angle was 65.5 for anyone who knows. Bike, bike stuff. And yours was like 65, I think it was 64.5. I don't know.

And you had this idea to make the bike slacker 'cause it would be better on Well, I, I don't think, my idea was to make it slacker. It was to make it lower on the BB. But with the, you know, thing that it also would get slacker because if you push it in, it would be slacker. So you lost travel, you lost a bit of travel little, but yeah, I think you'd sacrifice maybe a centimeter of the um mm-hmm.

Of the stroke. And that's how you, like you won races like that and we were on the podium together like that. And I remember every time the bike would go, it would regain travel. It would bang against, it would knock. 'cause that thing was forcing it to stay. It wouldn't let the shock return all the way.

Yeah. But the coil was winded in, so it was just the shock, stamping force pushing it against it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But you small price to pay for extra performance,

dude, what? Honesty? Like the bush mechanics that went on crazy. Crazy like, and I think I had, I mean, I don't know. I never bought new stuff that year. We, we got like tires, we just asked teams after the World Cups. We like walk around the pits asking for tires. Uh, I remember buying a specialized tire at opening bikes and a ri 'cause my ZTR room lasted a day in Ford William.

Um, yeah. Yeah. I can't remember what bike parts and stuff I bought, to be honest. Tires. I mean, if you go to the World Cups, you can always get a tire or two somewhere. Um, what about when we got, uh, just thinking about another story. What about when we got pulled over by the cops? Yeah. That was another experience in Germany.

Well, I think we got pulled over multiple times actually. But there was one time particularly where they searched us and they said the dogs were gonna come. And now we are like, cool. We got nothing to hide. But then we were thinking, what if the previous people hid somewhere and then you start telling selves stuff like, oh, flop, like, like.

This is not gonna be fun if there's something, you know, but yeah. Um, that happened a couple of times. Um, it was a good year. It was a, I mean, we're still talking about it. You've got a lot of questions there, but we're still talking about the back. Well, that's the most, uh, yeah. That, that is, uh, man, that's the, there's so many things.

I wanted to have this, so many things have this on record. What? And, and that you also had, I mean, there was no, there was no WhatsApp and like what? There wasn't WhatsApp There was mix it. No, there was, there was mix it, I think, but I still chat. Wasn't it the start of WhatsApp? I remember, I, I just remember I had, I was searching for wifi everywhere.

Oh, no. To talk to Izzy. Basically. I was alone in the van every night because he put, how long are you? And together. Your wife now. So one year you weren't married yet, obviously. Yeah, a year. A year and a bit. And obviously they wanted to talk to each other every night. So every night they would go and chat.

I don't know how much it costs. I mean, how often did you Melina chat? But I was single at that time. Yes, at that time. But then years later you gotta go and you're like, oh, now I understand why.

But, uh, yeah, and we would just watch. We didn't have, there was no such thing as Netflix and stuff. We watched how I met your mother series. I mean, there was internet, there was wifi. It wasn't as easy as getting an eum like now, you know? So you had to get wifi and the connections were crappy. And the phones were, Instagram wasn't around yet.

No. Or at least if, if it was, we weren't using it Facebook. It was Facebook Messenger. That's actually how we communicated mostly email and Facebook Messenger. Mm-hmm. And Skype every now and then to see people, that's actually, yeah. And that was. Good technology at that time. What's, so, I mean, obviously after that, like you, we got onto a little team the next year, as you mentioned, on Canfield.

Um, and then that was, was that your best year 2012 overall, or would you, was there a better Yeah, it's hard to say. Like, as, you know, as a, as a racer, you could take results as your best or it could be a specific scenario that you may be overcome. Mm-hmm. You know, that people won't necessarily see where that could be your best thing.

And I think that's probably the case for me. Of course, in 2012, you know, I've, I've finished second in the European Cup series overall and I won one of the European Cup rounds, which I would say is one of my highlights. You know, one of the biggest races, you know, that I've won. Um, I. But then for me, I think it's still, it's, it was until very recently Still.

Your profile picture on WhatsApp. Yes, yes, yes, a hundred percent. Yeah. Where I threw my bike. Yeah. Yeah. And Zab, Bina got angry at me. I does, he wins the race and he like, lets his bike go. And then the, the team manager got pissed off with him because he let his bike go. Um, but I would say my best year was 2018 when I actually had the opportunity to.

With more budget to go and train some of the tracks beforehand. Eric and I did Fort William before and I qualified there, which is good. And then Valda Soul, one of the STR tracks. I was always struggling to hold on. I was always fast, like section for section and I liked the track and I felt good there always, but in a full run I could just never hold on 'cause I could never condition myself for it.

But that year we did two weeks before there, we pushed, we pushed, we pushed, and at the end of that I could do full runs down just by baring my teeth and it was highly possible. So I had a different mindset in the race and just because of that, I had my best World Cup result there in Europe, which was 46th place, I qualified 42nd and 46 in the final.

It was already top 60 that year. Mm-hmm. Qualifying and um, I mean that was a year rained. Yes. Oh my. In qualifying, I've never seen so much fear in a, in a start area. Everyone was quiet. Like you could see like there was just fear and stress. That was, I would say that's probably the, I don't know about you, but I would say that probably the gnarliest like timed run at an event that I've had to do.

Yeah, that definitely up there with some of the artists. I mean, the thing is you, that that whole scenario, you know, that track in the wet and, you know, me trying to hold on in the race and making it through and then getting my 46 position out of, I don't know, 180, 160 riders that was, there was for me just a major achievement.

I mean, to the, to the normal rider out there, it might not mean much, but for me that was to have that opportunity. I mean, if you look at the top riders now, they do hundreds of runs written down telemetry. Preseason before it starts for that race. I had, we did actually, we went there the two weeks before.

'cause the week before they closed the track, we were there together. Yes you were. You were there. Yeah. And we did two full hard days, one off day and another hard day. So it was actually just three days of riding and that resulted in what happened there. Mm-hmm. And it just made me think like if I ever had the opportunity to really do all those runs and really prepare for a season like that, you know, in South Africa it's not possible unless you've got a lot of money and you can go to New Zealand, you know, preseason or stuff like that.

Like what could I have actually achieved? You know, like realistically, I don't think I would've ever gotten to the top probably. I mean, I would've tried for sure, but I definitely think if I had proper preseason, you know, preparation and training. Let's say for two, three years in a row that I could have been a top 20 rider.

Um, I have no doubt about that. But, um, I mean, it didn't happen that way. Um, but that's why that specific race, I would say was so significant to me. Just what you overcome, you know? 'cause you, it's your, for yourself, you know? Mm-hmm. You, you like, can I do this? And you realize I can't actually do this. Um, you know, we always paint these big name pictures in front of yourself and you see the guys on track and yeah, they're good, but you also realize they're just humans, you know?

And, um, once you get to that point, you like the next step in your mindset and you just prove to yourself that you can actually do this. You know, that young boy from mm-hmm. A random place in South Africa, you know, to on the world stage. So that's why I said I never became world champion, but I'm actually happy with what I achieved, you know, from where we came.

So yeah, that's why I would say that race was probably on par for me. As the European Cup win, basically. Interesting. Uh, it's interesting that you said that. Well, the soul, because I mean, that's where I had almost the same experience that you had like that that was my best result. And my, if I think about, oh, you did really well then my career, that was, that will be always the race that sticks out.

Yeah. Like, because again, the same thing, just because of how hard it was. And like, I got 21st there, which for some people means like, if you talk about like Bruni and those guys, it's like, like, you know, it means nothing. But for, I think for us, where we started, like in the past that we had, um, just Yeah.

Meant, meant so much, like how hard it was to get there. And I remember the, I dunno how it was for you the first time you went to, well, the Soul, but the first time I went to, well the Soul. I wanted to quit. Yeah. I mate, it was, it's a, it's a rude awakening. Like, because I thought, okay, this is downhill. Like then I, I dunno what I've been doing, but I mean, it was so ridiculous.

Like, and well, same for me when I rocked up in Champine in 2007. So World Cup. But, and then I think is this like, you don't realize it's one of the hottest tracks ever, but you just rock up there. You're like, is this what World Cup racing is? Holy moly. You know? And that was one of the toughest, maybe arguably one, arguably the toughest World Cup ever.

Like, no, no, that, that ChAARI Oh, in thousand seven. Oh, that was before the catches. And because there had no catch catches, nothing. It was just me, Canberra and the steepest thing you could imagine mental, you get there, you look up at the mountain and you're just like, what are we riding down here? Like the, the gondola pretty much goes up like this.

It's crazy. Um, but yeah, I mean, even while the sun, no joke bro. Even in the dryer nowadays, no joke. And if it rains, it's just, it's even now, I mean it's obviously the track's gotten a lot, a bit more bike parky over the years, but it's still, I would say probably the roughest, probably the gnarlies still the gnarliest track.

Yeah. Overall, by the soul, I mean, yeah, no, look. There was a couple of tracks obviously that stand out as difficult tracks like Fort William. That one year with that forest section, basically the forest section, that was like the hardest 2017 Fort William Forest section. Hardest 20 seconds you'll ever ride.

You know what I mean? I mean, I qualified with a crash. How does that ever happen? I remember because so many people crashed there. I remember we had that, that it was before the forest section. There was a a mud hole that we had to, you had to bunny hop over and if you didn't go far enough, you landed in the hole and you just stopped and went over.

The bars stopped, and if you tried to ride slow, you stopped and went over the bars. Yeah, so the best thing was to do, to just go as fast as you can, go over the bars, but quickly and then carry on. And I'll never forget that specific hole. Eric and I were standing there watching, and Dakota Norton came in there before he was.

You know, the D is now and I just remember him going into that hole completely dead stopping, not going over the bars, just dead stopping looking at us and going, it is American accent. Wow. That's penis.

Eric and I still talk about it to this day. It was so good. But, but we could relate, you know? 'cause we were just trying to get to that thing, pushing our bikes outta that swap standing there and yeah, this guy comes with the same scenario, dude. And dude, that, that's the only time actually, 'cause we both crashed and qualifying and we both qualified with going over the bars in that hole.

Yeah. That's how many people crashed it. It was in, like, I told myself that if I'm gonna crash in that section, just pick up your bike as soon as, as quickly as possible and keep on racing to the finish. That's what I did. And I made it I think 79th, 78th. It was still top 80. Mm-hmm. And uh, yeah, but still made it in with a crash.

Normally if you crash, it's came over. But it was game over for a lot of people in Mad Race, so you just had to keep going. It's not often you see in that wood section. Afterwards you remember you saw guys like Troy Brazen coming through, like basically sitting on his seat, two foot paddling through the rights.

It was just like Danny Hart, Rachel Etherton, like it's, it was a gamble. You'd go in and see what happens except I think Greg won that race and he just rode it. Like he nailed it. As far as I remember. He was good.

I remember like watching, watching guys ride who, whether it was Greg or Quinn or Bruni or whatever, and then in their final run we'd be staying at the bottom bottom watching it and we'd just be like, hit the corner and it'd be like. Wow, that was fast. Like, and the next guy comes even faster. Open corner, you know, like open corner, like best guys in the world.

Yeah. Um, no. So then, so after, would you say you say 2018 was your best year, do you think? Well, just like, I would say overcoming certain things, improving to yourself, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think there was a a, I've had highlights, but I mean there was a couple of good years I would say. Look, I never did full series.

Mm-hmm. And you know, besides fire 2012 European Cup series or I've never done a full series. The one race. You've never done Monan. Yeah. I'm literally going to Monan for the first time this year as a lion spotter. Dude, I'm really excited about that. See if you can like do some co sweeping Yeah. Maybe. Yeah.

The sea, you know. Yeah. That, that, and then how does that compare to, to like, you know, you won nine national championships, like, so how does that rate against like winning a national champs? 'cause for me personally, even though, even though National Champs means nothing in the big scheme of things over year, like I, I still feel, for me personally, it was like something special.

Well, yeah, 'cause you, it's, it's so hard to win one. I mean, it's, it's not a European race of course, but if you think it's easy there, try and win it. It's, it's very hard. Um, of course there's not 200 Fast guys, but there's a handful of fast guys and they all want that jersey. Um, and it's different, like the tracks are different.

Like it's, it's a different style of racing. Different style. Yeah. And, um. You know, my first three shms that I won when I was younger was like, okay, cool. I won the race. Yeah, I won a lot of nationals at that time. Like back in those days, if I had a good run, I knew I'd win the race. But then obviously through the years you get people coming up and challenging you and you know, things start getting harder.

And then for a whole bunch of years I couldn't afford to go back and forth to Europe, you know, to go back and do South African champs. And then the first one I did then, so I think the last one I did was 2011. And. Then only in 2016 when we went to Peter Marburg on that other narly loose track where you won.

Um, and I was second, and then the year after that, 2017 in Manele, when I won my fourth one at the age of 30, I thought, you know, like my days are basically my best days are behind me. And so I was like, you know, so that's when, when I won that was, was really special to me because I just proved to myself that I'm, I'm 30 already and I could still do it.

Now I'm like 38 and I'm still, you know, like if I knew back then, like you're actually really young still. You know what I mean? And um, yeah. And even, even the one in Yoon kazoo, the year, COVID year, just like a month before COVID struck, that was quite special, the fifth one. Um, yeah. And then two in Duro, ones in between.

Um, the Enduro ones were really cool to win, and I was really confident that I could win them. Um, the Daniel ones are definitely way more special to me, you know? So like the last one I won in 2023 in Sabi was 22, 3 4. Three three, right before my daughters were born. Yeah. Um, that was really special at 37, you know, I mean, 36.

Yeah. Two, three, yeah. 36 years old. Yeah. And, um, just when I crossed that line and they, they set it out one, and I knew I was getting twin girls later that year. And, um, just that I had done it again at that age, uh, once again, not that it's old, but it's just like life happens. You got different priorities, you know, and like, um, it's just yeah.

Super special. And that, that feeling. Yeah. I mean, same with you, I presume last year when you mm-hmm. Won that one, that must have been a crazy good feeling. Um, yeah, so the, the, a lot of the sa champs wins, I would say, come really special. You know, how many times, like, think about how many times we've been on the podium together at SHM, either you winning and me being second or third and vice versa.

Yeah. There's a couple, like a couple. I think there's, I know there's, I need to calculate, but it's like six, there's a couple or eight times at least. Yeah, from 2010, the first time, 20 I got first and you won. And then I think it's like pretty, pretty crazy. Yeah. To have, and then you and Tian battled out a couple of years.

Yeah. Um, those, those are the years when I was in there, I was in Europe that time. And then you are from 2016 onwards, it's like, I must say, you, you probably, I would overall my, through my whole racing career, you'll be, be my biggest rival because we always raced against each other in South Africa as well.

But I'm also, you probably my biggest strength as well. Well, I, I tell, I still tell people the same thing. The reason why we stayed on top of the game for so long was the fact that we. Trained together and, and did all those time runs always together because we push each other to levels where people shouldn't really get pushed to, to be honest, we did some stupid things sometimes, dude.

I mean, it, it, it, we stayed good, you know, like competitive. Um, I mean even to this day, like, you know, those days of us training together, that often is over, but that level of racing is still with me. To put it into perspective, this year at SA champs, um, you know, I won the national overall this year still, and at sh champs, even though I was fifth, I was only 1.7 seconds behind the winner, top five.

Um, so I was still competitive with the guys and. This year I literally trained almost nothing. Normally I do pump track intervals preparing for shms. Mm-hmm. Being ready. This year I almost did no training. It was, I was working hard in Cape Town. Mm-hmm. When I was home, it was, my daughters were keeping us busy.

I mean, it's cool, you know, but there's, it's hard to get a training structure, but yet I was still competitive because of what we did back in the day. The training, the competitiveness between us, et cetera, et cetera. Of course, the aftermath, I was way more tired. Like I got sick and I was like, you know, but you still had that performance in you, which is really cool.

Um, but yeah, that's, I mean, I told a lot of the juniors that I trained back home now that are thinking coming to Europe. Mm-hmm. Some of them have been to Europe. I told them, guys, don't, I know some of you're competitive with each other and you, you're not friends with that guy because yeah, he's your competitive.

But no, like, become friends. Train together, push each other, and in two years from now, no one nationally is gonna touch you guys. Trust me. Yeah. And also when you come overseas, except me and Goy, and also when you come overseas, you're not, they're not your rival anymore. They, you need to help each other.

Like, because then you're taking on the world, like, and I felt like that a hundred percent when you hear all of the South Africans stick together because you need to, like, it's, the level is so high, you need to Absolutely. You know, use that to push each other forward. I. Um, and talk to me about the journey with like with YT and, you know, how you got started with them and then moving into now the role that you have now and not, not racing, uh, well not racing world Cups, but like doing a bit of a, you're doing quite a few roles now, like Barista Lion coach dropping cars at dropping rental cars back at the airport.

Jen's shopping Bitch trolley. Bitch. Trolley bitch. Sorry. Yeah, so, um, at the end of 2015, it was basically after three horrible seasons of me having scaphoid injuries and, um, I started riding good again after, after that time. And Eric was looking for a, a teammate on, on team racing dudes back in that time.

And, um, he asked me if I would be keen and I was like, yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, I was looking for support in Europe and, you know, for the racing. And then, yeah, that's basically how it happened. So from 2016 we raced together. Um, we did a lot of races, Eric and I, and we started working together with yt.

I helped him a little bit on the testing front and he's majorly busy with testing. I mean, he's one of the best, um, test writers in the world, in my opinion. And it's not just me saying that. There was a couple of guys saying that he's attention to detail and, you know, the, the extra work he does, the extra trouble he goes through to really, um, give the best feedback and, and shock tunes or whatever the case might be.

You know, it's just, it's incredible and, um, but it makes him really busy. So, yeah. You know, so we started working more and more with yt. We started going to the press camps. Um, 'cause you know, we, we could ride good. We can talk a lot, uh, we can talk good to the guys. So we always had a, a, a good, good time with the journalists.

You know, uh, we went to Portugal twice on the new jfc. Um. Uh, press Camp on the new Capra Press camp. Um, and they were all good. And you know, we enjoyed a lot. I'm pretty sure the journalist enjoyed it with us also. Um, yeah, so we started working a lot more with yt. I mean, Eric's obviously the test writer, so that's how the journey of YT began.

And then every year, you know, something different would come along and we'd help them with this or be involved with that. And then team racing dudes, the name got changed. So basically Martin Whiteley ran the program of the White Team Mob. Mm-hmm. And, um, Whitey was just the main sponsor, but then at one point, um, probably what you chatted to Aaron about is white T took over the team themselves and they had to do basically a test here to see how it was what they needed to do.

So then they used US team racing dudes, but then it became white T racing dudes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, um, yeah, so then we, we played, uh, that year. It was a, like team role with him. Um, you know, there's been ups and downs and, and things and, and, uh, then obviously the white team mob became what it is now and, um, for this year.

So last, since from last year, um, I got the opportunity to be the lion spotter for the, um, for the YT mob. And yeah, later in my career, you know, world Cups becoming really brutal. You know, you, you need to do riding full time really, if you wanted to race World Cups to even be remotely competitive with those guys.

Um, I thought to myself, it's a really good opportunity. It's in the line of coaching, which I enjoy doing. I mean, I coach back home, I do youth games. Mm-hmm. I coach riders, you know, from beginner to advanced. Um, and I really, really enjoyed it last year and building the relationship with the riders and, you know, using my knowledge to, to put it in and, and this year we just continuing that, that thing, um.

Whitey racing dudes also became white racing development this year, which is like a development team. Um, Eric's got a really good eye also for, for spotting future talent. So that's what he did. There's a rider from Czech Republic, there's a rider from Germany. Um, juniors s is in there. Um, you know, and they're helping those, are they, are they not doing World Cups?

They're doing Europe? Um, no, no. So the one junior is because he's old enough, the other one is still too young for World Cups. Mm-hmm. So he probably do World Cups from next year on, but Fast Rider, fast, really talented. Tristan, um, and Hunters is also doing not every, all the World Cups, but he's doing some of the World Cups.

Um, they're also be in Leo Gang now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I mean, there's, David Trummer came through our, um, came through our team. Um, who else Trummer racing this year? No, no. He's Lion spotter. Lion Spotter. He stopped racing. Well, he became a dad. Crazy. Yeah. So he's not, I'm not sure if he stopped racing, but he's not racing this year.

Interesting. Okay. Um, yeah. And you got a baby, baby boy, so, um, that's pretty cool. I saw him on the sidelines. It's in Denville on the track. Um, yeah. And there's another, who else came through the ranks on, uh, angel? No, angel was part of the Y team. Oh boy. But anyway, yeah. You know, there's um, you know, and, and Trumer obviously went on from YT racing dudes to the, to the mob and became a great success.

You know, he basically borderline podium and, you know, he ended that season in ninth place, which is pretty good. You've got Silvered Worlds as well. Yes. Um, so yeah. Um, Eric's onto a really good thing there, um, spotting future talent that Yeah. Can possibly pay dividends for that team. And, um, you know, he's proven that, you know, he.

He knows what he sees in a rider. Um, so I picked me. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But yeah, that's, that's um, what the white g racing development's all about. So yeah. So obviously when, when they are at the World Cups, um, like I said now at Leo Gang, they're also be there. So I'll be line spotter, I'll help them.

They part of the group, the YT mob themselves. Um. Yeah, so I'm on track there, just giving as much feedback as I can. Um, sharing my opinion, watching the riders, giving my suggestions to bike set up, um, you know, watching GoPros after. Mm-hmm. Um, making sure that they got the fastest line down the hill, whatever the weather might be.

Um, in Denville now, one of the corners got really done and Andy was like, I needed to, to be there to just send him some picks and, you know, and I ran up that mountain was, my legs were dying, but I got there, sent the info, sent the photos. Um, I told them what I think he should do and how he should approach the corner, and they ended up having good runs.

So, you know, that's in the end, we are all there to, to support each other and, and get the best out of our riders. So I really enjoy what I'm doing now, like now. I mean, when you were coming through, I mean, that's all we wanted, you know, initially was to be on a big team and, and have that support and now.

You are there, but obviously in a different role. Like what is it like being on the team but not actually being the rider on the team that you once thought that you might be? And that's the, the first thing. And second thing is, do you think, like now that you've seen the ins and outs of a big team, how much difference do you think it makes being on a team like that?

Like how much difference do you think it would've made to your career being on this team as a rider? Yeah. Look, it's, it's, uh, first of all, for me being there not being a rider, um, I have to say it's actually. I enjoy a lot what I'm doing. I'm, I'm not enjoying it because I'm not a rider there. I'm just enjoying my position there.

I mean, being a rider on a team is tough. I mean, you've got pressure, pressure on yourself, pressure to perform, doesn't matter. Like in Poland, you know, when it's snowing at the start, shame volley, it has to go up there and she has to deliver a good race run and minus temperatures. And like, you know, it's super tough.

Um, and the tracks is dangerous and, you know, you know what the speed's like nowadays. Uh mm-hmm. You know, it's definitely tough. And I have to say that, that pressure of getting your bike ready in the morning and when it's cold and stuff, I don't really miss that. I miss the actual riding and the racing because I, I'm a competitive guy.

I like it. But now I can, I can go there, I make my coffee in the morning, I get ready to go up on that track and, and assist the riders. Because I was one, so I know exactly what they feel. I know exactly what I, the feedback I would've wanted when I was on the track. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. And I just try and, and and share as much of that knowledge with them, you know, as possible.

So I have to say, I really enjoy where I'm now. Of course, when it's a really good track, like in Denville now with the dry conditions and this and this, you know, I'm like, oh, I really wanted to be on the bike now. I would've been sick in Poland. Not so much. I was happy to be on the side of the track there.

Um, but yeah, I mean, of course riding's my first love and, and that was my dream. But as you know, you know what riding in high school, you just think of like, oh, you are a sick professional racer, but it's not always as glamorous as you think. It's, it's hard, really hard. Um, it's a disciplined lifestyle. Um, you gotta do a lot of the times things you don't want to do.

Um, but the name you build for yourself opens up a lot of other opportunities, and you have to be real to yourself. You can't race forever. Mm-hmm. So I feel this is one of the opportunities that it's opened up for me and the knowledge that I've built over the years that I can share now and use, um, two people with similar goals then, uh, that I had.

I think that's amazing. And, um, I wanted to be the best rider there was, and now I'll try and be the best damn lion spotter that there's ever been, you know? So I love it. And so, with that being said, like now, obviously world Cups are harder than ever. The, the, the level, the, the, the field is deeper than ever and there are less guys in the final than ever.

Um, do you think it's still viable for privateers to race World Cups and. Now you've been on a factory team, how much difference do you think that actually makes between being a private, like take the same rider as a privateer or being on a factory team? Yeah, look, the, it's a good question because personally I feel yes, the support makes it a lot easier for you and you can focus more.

But nothing that you ever do as a privateer. Of course there's privateers and there's privateers. Mm. But nothing you ever do is just going to make you 20 seconds faster. That's you and your knowledge of the bike. Of course, when you're on a team, you've got place to put your wet clothing. You've got eight sets of kits, uh, waiting for you if one tears or you know, it's if something's wrong on the bike mechanic, take the bike, get it fixed while you sort out your kit or get something to eat and drink.

All those things make it easier for you to stay focused on what you need to do. But if you're in that start, whether you're private tier on a team, um, you know, and you are ready and you're focused, you're gonna do good or you're gonna do bad, whether you're on a team or whether you're privateer. Um, of course there's also different extent of of teams.

Mm. You know, if you take the type of testing and, and r and d and stuff specialized us, for example, this, you can't compare to a private tier. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? The amount of runs they do, the amount of knowledge they have about bike set up, things like that. But Bruni, for example, was also not just a privateer and they took him immediately onto that team.

Mm-hmm. He first had to become the bruni and then he got it. Mm-hmm. So I don't think it makes as big difference as people think, but it makes your life out of a lot easier and makes it easier to focus also on what you need to do. And of course, Daniel, there's so many factors that goes into that run that if you can eliminate some of the factors and just focus on what you need to do for that run, then I would say your path to getting better will be quicker.

Mm-hmm. But it's definitely not a case of that private tier's, 30th or 40th. Now he's on a big team and he's gonna be fifth. That's not the case. What I think, I don't know how you feel about this, is I think one of the biggest things about being on a team with other top rider is that much like us riding together and training together, it opens up the opportunity to then ride and train Absolutely.

With these top rider. Absolutely. Which is going to raise your level. Absolutely. So I think for me, me, I think you could ride with them in a team or not on a team, but maybe the opportunity, wouldn't it not? You know what, I hundred percent look at everyone. Everyone who rode with Samuel on the team. Yeah.

Troy, Mike Jones. Brosnan. I just said Troy. Oh, sorry. Faircloth. Well, there was another one. Faircloth. No. Was that the only ones? I think so. Yeah. They all became top riders. And I think it's especially true for, for a slower guy coming in Mm. Or a less experienced guy coming in, riding with a top dog regularly.

I mean, if you and I would've ridden with Greg Menno twice a week in our career, probably would've become a top 20 rider. It wouldn't have hurt. It would, it wouldn't have hurt. You know? You know what I mean? Um, look at France, look at the British, you know how many top rider they've got that also races state nationals.

Mm. So it's the same environment. In France, the tracks are also really fast. So it's the same environment when they get to the World Cups. Mm-hmm. Same speed. It's nothing new. The competition, the best guys racing there is their same competition. Mm-hmm. So that dictates where you will be, um, that's what you obviously lacked in South Africa, and that's actually a big worry.

Mm-hmm. Currently with Greg not racing anymore, who's gonna be the next guy to push them there or get there. And it's not easy for South African because teams are obviously also looking at saving costs, you know? Mm-hmm. It's easier taking someone from Europe than getting someone from South Africa, unless he's really gonna be a superstar.

Yeah. Or is showing talent, you know, in that way. So, yeah. And obviously things have changed a lot, um, I mean, especially the last few years, but what's your feeling on, on. How downhill has evolved, like since we started to now do you think it's a are EU for it against it? Because I'm, I'm not sure to be honest.

I'm mostly not sure. It's obviously cool to watch. That's why they're making it like that. I don't, I will say Q1 and Q2 is pretty, is that's cool as a spectator to watch. Yeah. But I think, I mean, as a writer to an extent, because you've got a second chance, but it's a second chance for top 30, not a second chance for top 60.

I, I actually, I remember years ago, I remember I sent Martin Whiteley an email when he was still very involved and I sent him an email about a last chance qualifier because I thought it was crazy that you have one qualifying round and if you have a flat, if you have a crash, anything, it's over. You fly across the world and then you can't race.

And so I thought that was cool, but I. Obviously now it's top 30. And not just that, but the field is way deeper than it was. So what I think is a bit of a shame is that there were times where someone would qualify 55th or something and could literally get a top 10 or get on the podium in the race, but now they don't get the opportunity because they don't get to race the the, the, there's a funny, the funny thing to me now is like how people are so disappointed not making the qualifying.

And I'm like, dude, well done today. Oh no, it's, I didn't qualify. Yeah, but you were 35th. It's ridiculous. I know. Yeah. But you should actually be happy because it's a really good result. But of course, you know you're not in the final and that's where you wanna be. So it's understandable, but it's just like, if I was 35th mm, it would be my best result.

Still gonna qualify, you know what I mean? But the level is so insane nowadays. Look at Poland. Look at Denville. Mm. How many previous winners? Not in the qualifying. That was scary. That was actually crazy when I saw like guys like Laurie Greenland not being in the final Yeah. I was like, what? Like how Matt Walker.

Crazy. It's insane. What is it? But, so that's the one side. And I, I understand, but sorry, just before you go on. Yeah. I've also had a conversation with, with Reese in, in Denville mm-hmm. About how fast and dangerous the tracks are now. And I have to agree that it is becoming very dangerous. And I'm also sort of wanna say that I feel like they should go a bit more back to more tech, slower tracks.

Mm-hmm. Um, people don't get hurt as much. It'll still be exciting. You crash more skill. You crash, but it's softer crashes. Yeah. But you don't crash it. 50 k an hour into a rock garden. Um, I mean, of course it can still happen if there's one first section or whatever, but it's just like more tech also. And you don't, you get less of these crazy guys just opening the taps, you know, because you actually need for nest to corner here mm-hmm.

And get the bike around there. Old school mountain biking essentially. Um, yeah. But yeah, the crashings a real thing. Like people are getting hurt. Look at the, look at Denville. I mean, you had to be absolutely open tap. Um, look at the crashes in the womans. It's crazy. Um, but yeah, I mean, and if you open, I like to watch it as it is, but as a rider I would also say it's, it's getting dangerous and where's it going?

Is it getting even faster? Mm-hmm. And, and. As the lion spotter next to the track. I'm seeing the guys ride live and dude, they are on the limit of what that bike and equipment can offer. Like people go, oh, one more compression. Click one more rebound click. And of course it makes a difference Brew that guy's landing there, the pole pi is flexing and bouncing the rebounds doing nothing.

You know what I mean? It just bouncing and flexing. It's crazy how hard they ride those bikes. But then they're so good. They just, how's Nathan Pon v's. Ride, bro? Like the French around me in the crowd, we going crazy and me Too insane. Incredible. I mean, it's cool to watch. Um, but yeah, it is, it is a bit scary and obviously being, having been a rider, you and I both.

Can put ourselves in that situation and know like, how am, am a rider? Well, am but not at the You are an old retired one. Yeah, dude, it's, it's gnarly. Like what's, but so the, I understand why they've made these changes to a degree, um, for like the life e whatever, even though they were only showing 30 guys anyway.

But what's it like live actually watching? Because I was thinking that surely it's gotta be less entertaining because there's less guys actually on track when you're there. Like, in the old days there were, I don't know, 150. Look, it's, it's, it's weird sometimes, like practice day before qualifying, um, the elite women were not training with the juniors.

It was elite women by themselves. And there was only a handful. So you stand next to the track and they'll go 15 minutes where no one's coming past you, photographers standing around. It's weird. Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden there's a wave of riders coming and then quiet tick and then everyone's done.

Now they all have to go back up before they're doing an next run. Mm-hmm. In the men's obviously there's a bit more, but still not nearly as busy as it used to be. Yeah. 'cause I think as a spectator, that must be, yeah. Not ideal. Like is still quite busy. A lot of spectators. Do you think it's in the last couple years, do you think they're more spectators now or less in France?

Yeah, it's hard to, ah, it's hard to say. There's still a lot of spectators at the races. Some events there were definitely less. I don't know if they advertised less or whatever the case might be, but, um. Yeah. I, I do think however, ever the TV thing should be sorted out. Like it should be free advertising or free watch for people.

That's how the sport's gonna grow, you know? Mm-hmm. They're trying to make it more like motor gp, which is mm-hmm. Cool in the way. Q1, Q2, and then only 30 in the finals. Um, yeah. And then the top 10 takes long, it's four minute gaps. 'cause they wanna show the whole run, you know? Mm-hmm. And that's what Discovery now said.

They proud of, they're showing more than Red Bull, but I feel like Red Bull showed enough, there was a lot of action. It was never boring to watch. There were three minute gaps, so it was a bit shorter, quicker to see the next rider. Mm-hmm. Not that it's bad. No. I mean, it was, Denville was action packed. It was an action packed race.

Um, so I think it's more the behind the scenes things, you know, like getting people getting access to watch the race online or whatever the, you know, internationally to grow the sport. But the less riders there I think makes also sense in a way. Um, the tracks get beat up a bit less. They're still, they still get beat up.

They will get beat up still because they're still 8,000 riders, elite men and 30 women. And how many juniors doing five, six runs each. So it's still hundreds of runs going through that track. Um, and it's all good riders, so they break hard. You know, they, it's crazy how every year, like when they go back to the same tracks, like the first year, there'll be a gap that everyone's like, Hmm, hmm, maybe like, maybe some will do it and then one guy will do it.

Or like, there'll be like two guys and then they go back the next year and then loads of guys do it. Um, but nothing's changed actually. Like it seemed, I don't know, I wasn't there. But in Dunville this year like that, that big huck off the stall wall. It seemed after the, whoops, it seemed like loads more guys did it this year than in previous years.

Yeah, because the level's just so much higher. And now with the equipment also there, there's just a bunch of crazy guys. I was there when Ron Ronan tried the first one this year, like overshot it by three meters straight through the camera, crowd, every, everything, it was just everyone was creating this corridor to go through.

Um, but yeah, in the end it was better actually not to jump it to Really? Yeah. To just, I thought they just didn't jump it in final 'cause of the wind. Mm-hmm. You land to get inside to get for the next corner better. Mm-hmm. Because if you sent it, it was super, your bike was so out of control trying to get braking and it got rough.

See? And you had to get on the inside of the cross there, otherwise you couldn't do that next corner in the right line. So that's why they would've sacrificed, um, that let's say bit of speed in order to get that next section better. And that's, guess that's what you. Would gain from having someone like you there to like time sections and stuff?

Well, yeah, to, to, um, I mean, I was overhearing specialized also. The, his guy was specifically telling the guys I was suggesting not to do it. He was telling them to not do it, um, because of, I don't know what the wind or just, it was such a hard landing that to keep control of the bike, you know, and, and they also time it sometimes, you know, I also time sections.

So you could actually see what the difference is between let's say a guy jumping it or a guy not jumping it, but you time it to the next section to actually see the speed. And also with the bike trying to get control of you trying to lose that speed, what are your chances out of 10 times to make it good every time.

Mm-hmm. Um, and for a World Cup, the track just gets worse and worse. So you wanna make sure you get that good every time, you know. So that would've been the, the strategy. For that thing. I would say it's a big Huck. It's a big Huck. It's massive. Yeah. Even if you get it smooth on the landing, it's a hard landing.

Have you raised student ball? No. Okay. Mm-hmm. Um, who do you think right now is, I mean, not the guy necessarily that that's winning necessarily, but who do you think is who's, who impresses you the most when you stand on the side of the track and watch at every race? Interesting question. Um, every time Bruni comes past it's art on a bike, the way he rides and the way his bike works and the way he works with the bike, it's just.

Art Piron obviously fast, always laris fast. The AAN brothers, you see them corner, it's unreal. You can't imagine a, a bike cornering in a gnarly corner like that. They're just super good riders. Um, I would say that in terms of impressing me, you know mm-hmm. That definitely, I think now that Jackson's won again, it's gonna be a turning point in the season because if you look at how he did that bottom section and not even Piron had an answer for that, tells me the fact that he's so light, makes it way easier for him on steep tracks because he's also a good rider.

So he would've had to do damage control at the top. And if he wasn't too far back, the bottom would be his playground. Because if you are that much lighter, the tires don't roll at that speed. There's less pressure on the bike and he's able to ride like that. Mm-hmm. I mean, look at those bottom corners.

It's unreal. How fast, unreal. Um, I, I think, and there's some steep tracks coming up, you know, so it's gonna be interesting to see what, there's a lot of good guys now, but I personally think that if nothing goes wrong with Jackson, I think he will be the future of like the, the staple guy for the next years to come.

That's gonna be the guy to beat. I, I think, yeah. I mean, could be wrong, but No, no, no. It's society likely all the Bruni, Piron, all these guys are gonna retire at some point. Like they're all quite a bit older than Jackson. Um, and, uh, it's highly likely because he's already winning. That was his third one already at what, 2021.

Crazy. It's insane actually. And he's got a long career and he's not gonna get any slower. So barring luck on his side, you know, that's, he's gonna be the man to beat. Um, I don't think the frenches are gonna let it go easy. There's obviously a lot of tracks that plays into the more powerful rider's. Um, hands pretty piran as we know.

If they get excited, we see some crazy stuff. So you, you watched, uh, how did, how did, uh, Gwen look on track in Denville? Very good. He was, some of the sections that I timed, he was the, the fastest and I was super surprised and it just made me, me think I was standing there with some other Lion Scout, um, Steve, Pete, Joe Smith.

And I was like crazy. Aaron did the slower line essentially in this section now, and he got the same time as the foster time in the foster line that I timed. And they're like, oh, that's crazy, that's great. And I'm like, let's not forget the guy won 20 world cups in five years. He knows how to carry speed.

So it was really good to see that. And a lot of people I spoke to was like, yes, busy to cool to see a Gwen Comeback. So I don't know, you know, he's still not hanging around, you know, he was in the final and pretty much going fast. So it was good to see when I, I was, you know, I, I felt with him recently, obviously, and, uh, I, it was really cool to, to like kind of get to know him a little bit better and like see under the hood.

And I really get the impression that, I mean, I, after that I really believe that he's still, I. He can still win. Like he still believes he can win. And I think that's the most important part. And when I rode with him, like you can see like how, you know, how he's still super confident on the bike and stuff.

And I think he's just had a lot of unfortunate circumstances and I think people are very quick to, when he told me about all the, the injuries that, that he went through, like the little things that happened, it was just like back to back to back. And I just, Johnny was such a gnarly sport. I was like, what the hell?

Like at certain point I was like, why would you even want keep racing after all this? Oh really? Stefan, after all those injuries, why would you keep racing? Tell us. Um, but yeah, I, it would be so sick. 'cause I mean, through our career, through the main part of our career, he was the main guy, like incredible. I mean, he did stuff that we can't explain, like, and I, yeah, like obviously I don't know where he ended up to 19th, I think in Dunville, but.

Which is not amazing. But I think given the fact of how much time he had off, bro, everyone who was in the final like were fast. Like, I think, and he made a big mistake. He would've been further up if he hadn't made some mistakes. So, yeah. Yeah. But it's a, it's once again a booster confidence. It's all you need sometimes, you know?

And it would be so sick. It would be sick, like to, I mean, man, I mean, it will be, it will be hard actually worlds because there's guys worlds in, there's guys who, it will be hard for sure, but when the Frenches get excited and old Jackson likes riding his bike, it's hard to go that fast, you know? But it would be really cool to see, uh, brew.

Um, last question, or that I ask all the guests is, what does success mean to you? Whew. I think almost the same as what I explained about the 2018 Valda soul. Just like when you, when there's something super tough for you and you almost think that you can't imagine yourself mm-hmm. Getting that okay or getting that right, or overcoming that, or beating that person or, you know, whatever it might be to the person out there, it might not mean much, but if you overcome that and achieve that, I would say that's, that's success.

I mean, not everyone can become the world champion one day, you know? Mm-hmm. But everyone has started somewhere and got you somewhere, and if you could measure that from everyone, it would be interesting to see who got the furthest, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Um. For the normal riders. You didn't grow up in Whistler, for example.

I was just thinking that. I was like, well, I, it would've been interesting to see where you would've got to if, or you or I, for that matter, would've been, would've grown up in Whistler, got picked up by team early. Yeah. You know, like, you know, but it didn't happen that way. So each guy has his own story. You know, it's, a lot of people will go, why is that guy still racing World Cup?

Yeah. But it's his own story, you know? He's trying to be the best he can be. Um, yeah. I mean, if I look back now and I count everything that I got right on a bike and from where I came, I'm really happy actually to, as to what I achieved. And, uh, of course you can always tell, you will always tell yourself, we competitive, you know, we, we driven.

And you, you always tell yourself, maybe I could have gone further, or maybe I could have gotten more. Mm-hmm. But life also happens. And I think it's also how you overcome that in the journey forward. I mean, in high school you're just like, oh, what? I gotta train a lot, but it's not as simple, you know what I mean?

Can't train when your collarbones sticking out. You So there's, you know, all these factors and you know, if you can really, I think the not giving up thing is real. That's all my SHM victories. That's probably the one thing I can say is I never gave up. I was at any given moment, not the fastest rider at a race, but you just keep on pushing forward and you never give up and it will happen at a point.

You know what I mean? I think there's a lot of power in that. Sweet. So, uh, all champs, uh, 2030. Yeah, I mean if you give up Greg age then, sorry, Greg. Dude, bro, that was sick. Thanks so much. That was awesome. Thanks dude. Thanks for having me. I was sick, right? If you guys enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to like, and subscribe and drop a comment and let me know which guests you wanna see, and I will do my best to get them on.

And to see more episodes, click the playlist right up here. That was iconic.