Thanks for coming on. The eyeball is the only internal organ on the outside of the body. What have you noticed in the last few years? Have things been going in the right direction or the wrong direction in terms of our eyesight? The statistics are showing us that things are Somewhat getting worse is just little things that you can do when you take a break, you actually get up, get away from your desk, look out a window.

Doesn't mean take a break and look at your phone. Dr. Joseph Allen is a board certified optometrist and lecturer based in the United States. He is on a mission to help and educate millions of people around the world about improving vision and eye health. When it comes to contact lenses and how we correct, They often times do have dryness.

You have something physically touching your eye. They do cause the tear film to evaporate faster too. The beauty of cataracts is that cataracts can be corrected surgically and instantly give somebody their vision back. The best foods that you can be eating for your eyes, green leafy vegetables, for as much as people think carrots are like the best.

Yeah, that was going to be the next question. Twitching of the eyelid, I had one. My eyelid was just twitching. Fluttering. It was bothering me for months. Well, I knew my eye exam with my eye doctor. And the reality is it's largely due to three factors it's due to.

Dr. Joe Allen, thanks for coming on. Um, I'm going to jump straight in. The first question I want to ask you was, what do you think is the biggest thing that negatively affecting people's eyesight, um, in the current world. In the current world, probably the amount of near work that we're doing, the amount of time that we're spending indoors, whether it be staring at your computer screen, but now staring at your smartphone or cell phones, uh, This has completely changed how our world has running and what we do in our daily lives and this Just being on a near device for hours You know the average amount of time people are spending on a device is somewhere around six to like thirteen hours Depending on the age group a day and that's a lot of that's a lot of demand on the visual system It's similar to using your eye muscles, like lifting a five or a 10 pound weight with your bicep and holding it in one position for hours and hours.

Like you can do it. Cause it's a lightweight, but eventually it can cause fatigue and we're finding it even has bigger ramifications, especially for younger eyes and potentially leading to things like higher levels of nearsightedness, which can carry additional problems, uh, for higher risk of eye diseases like glaucoma, vision loss, retinal detachments, eye floaters.

And then there's also this. Other component of dry eye disease, because when we're staring at devices, we tend not to blink as often and we don't blink our eyes completely closed during that time either. Usually because we have hyper attention and we just, our brain has learned, Oh, when I need to be focusing on something, I need to keep my eyes open longer and really hyper focused.

So again, our blink rate goes down and then your tear film evaporates. And with that you get inflammation, and then your eye goes into a, a process called the vicious cycle of dry eye, where the eye just perpetually becomes dry and more inflamed. And that's, you can see how they're all very much intertwined.

It's it sounds, it sounds a lot like myself. It's interesting because You know, I've noticed that as well, just over the last decade or so, as we've been, as I've been using, you know, screens and stuff more and more, and especially cell phones, and obviously a lot with what I do, um, you know, on social media and stuff, and that means a lot of time, either searching for content, creating content, editing.

There's a lot of time on, on a, particularly a cell phone, but also in front of a laptop and, um, I've had some various issues, eye twitching, dry eyes, uh, you know, things like that. And, but how do you get away from it? You know, um, it's, it's in the modern world. I mean, how, how do you not, not deal with it? It's really tough.

You're you're right. It's because of just our modern world and the way society has changed, the way work has changed for a lot of people. You really, It's it's a struggle to get away. I know a big change that it's just little things that you can do as work on your posture You know a lot of times people are we've sink naturally into really poor posture when you're sitting for hours Especially with your phone you tilt your head and you get tech neck is what they call it when you're staring down at your phone You know, you see people walking down the street like that all the time Cervicogenic Neck strain relationship, um, issues between your shoulders, your neck, uh, that can radiate to the eye and cause eye pain, um, can, can contribute to feelings of eye strain.

And so, uh, there is, I think, just having awareness of your posture. Taking more frequent breaks is often recommended, um, which means that when you take a break, you actually get up, get away from your desk, try to go outside, look out a window, doesn't mean take a break and look at your phone. Cause they did that study in Japan.

Uh, I believe it was Japan, but they, they did a study where they said, no, at a time where your computer is going to shut off and you have to spend at least a minute or two, uh, Doing something else. And everybody just looked at their phone. And so, so it's important to intentionally take those breaks and give your eyes a rest.

So coming back to you, to you a little bit, who, who are you? Who is, uh, Dr. Joe Allen? So. My name is Dr. Joseph Allen. I am an optometrist in the United States. I am also kind of famed for running the Dr. EyeHealth YouTube channel, which is a public educational YouTube channel, all about eye health, vision, vision products.

On top of that, I also do a little bit of my own podcasting within my own sphere of eye care professionals. And then I also, uh, do a lot of lectures. So I travel internationally and give lectures to other doctors on advanced procedures, either new medications that have come out or, or new research, just keeping doctors on, on the kind of top pages of, of where the research is going.

So a little bit of everything, but, uh, Yeah, so that that's me and that's what i'm doing You've obviously been doing this a while now and and what have you noticed in the last? You know the last few years decade has Have things been going in the right direction or the wrong direction in terms of our eyesight I like to think it's both, you know, the the challenge the challenge of our society with eyes The statistics are showing us that things are somewhat getting worse, especially in the realm of, uh, nearsightedness, myopia.

There are increasing levels of aging populations around the world. So we also are seeing a lot of eye diseases, even blinding eye diseases on the rise. Uh, unfortunately health issues like diabetes are on the rise in many parts of the world, and that significantly affects the health of the eye. But at the same time, uh, at least in the research side of things, because of the way technology is advancing, whether it be using AI models, whether it be just better research algorithms and, and ways we can process data.

We are developing new treatments and discovering relationships of lifestyle to things like eye health that haven't been as clear in the past. And so I get excited that there's a lot more attention being driven toward eyesight, a lot more revelations in the research that are coming out. And so even though some of the statistics.

Seem like things are getting worse. I'm also very excited and hopeful for kind of, uh, treatments down the line. It's interesting because it seems like, I mean, not that's as a general, uh, statement across healthcare, you know, as healthcare is advancing, we are doing things at the same time, which are not good for us.

So going in the opposite direction. And, uh, so it's like two forces fighting against each other. Kind of seems like that sometimes. Uh, I think, you know, looking at the statistics, you have to be aware that yes, the population of many countries is aging, right? Our, uh, older generation is living longer. And because whether it be many different economic, uh, Influences or other factors, people aren't having as many kids.

And so that skews some of the statistics a little bit, but, uh, yeah, big things like diabetes does affect the eyes quite a bit, high blood pressure. A lot of other systemic diseases are caught in the eye. And so, um, that's a big focus in the eye care world is, is that. Not just thinking of like glasses, contacts, Lasik, those sort of basic things, but really understanding the disease that occurs within the eye, how it's relation, how it's related to other systemic issues going on in the body, and then of course recognizing and treating those diseases.

You mean you've touched on a little bit of it there, but what, what else can you see in the eye when, when you actually look into the eye? What are the diseases which you could see which may be Yeah, as a, as a normal person, you'd have no idea. Yeah. So this is a beautiful thing about eye care. And I think if you're, unless you're like in the healthcare world, you probably don't conceptually think about it.

But the eye is when you try to examine the eyeball, you have a clear window to look into a person's body. Like you're, if you go to see your family doctor, your primary care provider, like they, they can look at your arm, but they can't like see through your skin and see how your blood vessels are working.

Right. They have to do other tests. They have to do blood pressure tests. They have to take a sample of your blood and try to look at the contents and try to like decipher, is this at a normal spot? But the eyeball, because the surface of the eye is clear, the lens inside the eyeball is clear, usually.

Right. You can see through it and you can see the neural tissue. The extension of the brain, the eyeball is the only internal organ on the outside of the body. So you can look through it and I can see the nerve. I can see the optic nerve and see the health of that nerve. I can see if that nerve is dying.

I can see if that nerve is bleeding. I can see the blood vessels in the back of the eye is one of the most highly vascularized areas in your body too. It's similar to the kidneys and the brain. You see blood vessels going everywhere. So if, if somebody does have, again, diabetes, for example, you can see the blood vessels starting to break down.

You can see them have aneurysms. You can see them bleeding inside the eye. If they have a high blood pressure issue, you can see that there. If there's cholesterol that's stuck in the artery from having like a mini stroke that the patient didn't even know they had. You can see the, you can see that stuck in their arteries.

Other things that show up in the eye include autoimmune diseases. We also unfortunately do catch cancers in the eye, whether that be a primary cancer of like the choroid in the back of the eye, or if it's a different cancer, like lung cancer or breast cancer that metastasizes to the eye, we, we could do catch that and sometimes brain cancer, because again, it can be pushing on the nerve in the back.

Uh, there's. A lot of other issues that can go on, but those are just to name a few of them on, you know, on top of infections and, and other things. That's, yeah, that's crazy. You think about it, the eye is almost, uh, almost a window to the brain in, in a sense. Very much so. Uh, and that's, um, that's kind of, I think the attention in a lot of older days, you used to just think, Oh, you know, your vision's poor, you need glasses, uh, or, or you need contacts.

And then, you know, in the, in the healthcare world, we've always known about major, uh, diseases of the eye that affect vision, like statistically worldwide cataracts causes a large percentage of blindness around the world. However, the beauty of cataracts is that cataracts can be corrected surgically, and.

Instantly give somebody their vision back. You know, assuming there's no other pathology going on behind the cataract. Uh, for those, for those who are watching, listening, who've, have never heard of a cataract before, uh, a cataract is where the lens inside of the eye, which when you're a kid is thin, flexible, and in clear, but as you get older, especially beyond the age of 60, the lens inside the eye starts to change structure and become cloudy.

It starts to crystallize. And so if you were an eye doctor looking inside someone's eye, you would see this. Either sometimes white or yellow opaque Structure inside of the eye that is cloudy It's like looking through a cloudy glass window and that's what we refer to as a cataract And if that progresses just as the doctor won't be able to see in nobody can really see out through that cataract either So it can cause people's vision to go cloudy and eventually lose color contrast and then if it progresses bad enough, they can't see through it at all and So thankfully we now have surgeries that 10 to 15 minutes and.

They remove, they remove that cloudy lens. They put a new plastic lens in its place that accounts for any need for glasses. And so afterward you can, most people see amazing afterward. Uh, maybe they have to rely a little bit on like reading glasses or a prescription pair of glasses, but they, they make a dramatic change in their, their eyesight and vision with that type of surgery.

Pretty sure. I'm not a hundred percent, but I'm pretty sure that my father in law just had that surgery done. Because I know that he had issues and then they replaced his lens. Um, so it sounds like it's, it's what he had done crazy that it's not just the way that you say that you take the lens out and put in, it's like changing a camera lens.

It's quite wild. A little bit. Um, you know, obviously there's a lot more steps to it. And, um, The invention of what's called FACO emulsification. Uh, that's a word for the day. That's, that's, that's the, the tool that is used in the operating room to shatter the cataract inside the eye. Cause it's kind of like shattering a marble you have to, but it's inside of the eyes, you have to be really careful.

So this machine uses ultrasound to gently shatter the. The lens while simultaneously vacuuming up all the particles that break off. And then they also have a tool where the lens is, is rolled up like a taco almost. And then it's injected into the side of the eye. So it, it unfolds and they put it in the perfect position.

It's, it's a, it's a pretty, uh, impressive procedure. And then. Then there's the research into how those lenses that are implanted, how they can design those lenses to enhance your vision so that you can not only see well at distance, but also see well at near. And who right now I'm like, I'm excited about the technology right now.

Like, um, that maybe got fit into your family members. But, you know, when you and I, 30, 40 years down the road, when you and I need those, Type of procedures, what kind of technology they're going to have, what, what kind of lenses, how will that, will it sync up with our phone or, or are we going to be able to have different filters, you know, like sunglasses, filters built into these lenses, who knows?

Um, it'll, it'll be really cool. It's it's similar to what my, my orthopedic surgeon said to me, cause I've got a hip replacement on the one side. And um, and he told me when I did it, obviously I was really nervous about having that done. And, um, He just said, you know, it's about quality of life. And I was in a lot of pain just from the arthritis due to having broken the joint.

And, uh, and he just said, nah, you know, there's a lot of talk, like when are you going to have it, do you have to replace it? How long is it going to last? And, and he just said, look in, in, by the time you need to, Potentially think about replacing it which he actually says probably I won't have to but Um, even if I did he said in 30 40 years 50 years time He's like medicine is progressing It's such an incredible rate that who knows what is going to be available then might even be able to just regrow my Actual joints, you know, it's so he's like, ah, don't worry about that.

Just, uh, get this done and get back to doing what you love. Um, so yeah, it is, it is crazy, um, what, what's happening. And now with AI and, and, you know, I, what's happened in the last two decades is just incredible the last decade. And now I can only just. Yeah, I can't actually imagine what's going to happen in the next 20 years.

Yeah, I think we're at to be alive right now is quite fascinating in so many aspects But in especially at least in the world of medicine, we're kind of on this cusp where we can kind of see The future and it almost like the science fiction we see in movies It is becoming tangible, like that's, that's what's kind of, kind of, it's, it's exciting and frightening.

You know, what, where is this going to lead? But it's, um, at least from my perspective, I'm just like, this is going to solve so many people's issues, potentially, you know, change how the world functions, uh, against statistically looking at the amount of vision loss in the world, just, just looking at that.

It's like. Almost three, almost like 3 billion people in the world at this point have some sort of vision loss or blindness. And that relates to almost a half of like 500 billion worth of loss of productivity because people can't see to work, people can't function efficiently while they're working if they have poor eyesight, um, whether that be just because they need glasses and don't have access to them, or if it's something like they have a disease like cataracts that needs to be stopped.

Um, so you can imagine if we had better access, if we had better solutions, better treatments, earlier detection, we can eliminate so much of that. And so the entire world's economy lifts too. It's. There's a lot of downstream effects. I mean, you were talking about cataracts. They, is there, what's the main cause of cataracts?

Why do people get it? So, uh, no, nobody loves the direct answer, which is age. The, you know, obviously we can unpack more of what's going on inside. The lens, uh, the easy answer is age by the time, it's kind of like getting gray hair. It's, it's something that happens as we get older. The, the true mechanism, we know that oxidative stress plays a large role with it.

Inside of the eye, this lens is suspended by little fibers called zonules, which are attached to a muscle inside the eye called the ciliary body. So it's floating inside the eye. It's suspended. There's no blood vessels getting to it. So the eyeball has a fluid inside the eye called the aqueous humor.

That is created, and it's sort of like a clear blood of the eye, which is beautiful because it has a high level of antioxidants in it. In fact, the highest level of vitamin C in your body is within your eye. It's almost 17 times more concentrated in the eye than it is just in your bloodstream. And that vitamin C, the whole purpose it's there is to prevent oxidative stress within that lens.

Because it has all this light energy going through it all day long, and it causes a lot of free radicals and, and potential oxidative stress. So we know that oxidative stress plays a role. In addition to this, we also know that people who smoke, people who drink more, people who are malnourished, they tend to develop cataracts faster.

We also know some medications, some systemic diseases, like in like diabetes, people develop cataracts faster. Um, there are different types of cataracts. So, depending on if somebody took a steroid medication for a long period of time, like if you're on oral steroids, um, that can develop a certain type of cataract.

There are cataracts that develop due to trauma. Uh, if you get really hard, you know, if you'd have a bad accident, like, Interestingly enough, one of my good friends, uh, she was a mount, she was doing mountain biking and she. I don't know. She got distracted. I don't remember exact story, but she got distracted.

She didn't pay attention. She hit something. She went over the handlebars and face landed straight on a rock and she shattered, it was terrible. She shattered part of her skull, her orbit. Um, and obviously if you get, if you hit something really hard on the eye, the eye is going to have some tissue, soft tissue around it, behind it.

So the eye squish. But if it's a hard enough. Um, hit, it'll have a percussive effect that will kind of, you can imagine these ripples like going around the eye and that strong effect can, um, can cause. A stress on the lens of the eye and cause a severe traumatic cataract. Uh, so people who are in trauma, people who have trauma can develop cataracts too.

Um, and then some people are born with cataracts. Like some kids are born, unfortunately with a cataract and maybe needs cataract surgery at a young age. The. Exact mechanism is debated. A recent publication that came out in the last few years is a theory, um, less proven, but I'd say is a theory that because the lens is inside of, it's actually inside of a bag, funny enough.

Um, there's this clear membrane that covers the lens. And because of that membrane, the lens is constantly growing from when you're a young kid, as you get older. There's that theory that sort of ever heard that, you know, every seven years, your body regenerates every cell. Well, that's mostly true except for in the eye, because the lens that you were born with, because it doesn't have any blood vessels, it, it grows, but it has nowhere to degenerate.

So it's, it's like looking at the rings of a tree. It's slowly gets bigger and bigger. And so somebody who's in their seventies has more rings of cells inside their lens than when they were at 11 years old. And so the lens constantly growing, that means the pressure inside of the lens is going up. Uh, so the internal pressure of that lens is getting more and more.

And so by about the time people are in their 40s, the crystals of this lens start to harden. It's believed that not just oxidative stress, but this pressure triggers A cascade of events that allows oxidative stress to affect it more. And then the crystals of the lens change. And that's, uh, the process of what we call press biopia.

Um, which is like Latin for old eyes, but it, uh, that's the reason why a lot of people in their forties end up needing bifocals, you know, the B word of eye care that no one likes, uh, Are they starting having to wear reading glasses? And, and that's because that lens inside the eye, which again, as a kid is thin and flexible, it can change shape.

And that allows you to focus distance to up close distance up close. But then that's when people are like, I can no longer see my phone or read a menu. I need to wear reading glasses. That's because that lens. Is this not flexible anymore? And then, and then another 20 years later, then the cataract starts forming.

What's also interesting is that often people need lead reading glasses. And then when they get older, then they don't need them anymore. And then they get more farsighted again, again, or at least that's been my experience, like my, my parents and also my grandmother there. So there's two things that go on that kind of caused that, um, So, first, yeah, when you're in the neck of your forties, again, you start losing your ability to see up close.

Uh, at least for most people, assuming you don't need glasses, or assuming you're slightly farsighted. Um, so, you'll, you'll start wearing the reading glasses. But as you continue to get older, those cataracts begin to form, and when the cataracts form, they can also induce A shift in the need for glasses because the the crystalline lenses that are the crystals within the lens They have a change in their refractive power So light is bent differently through the lens now and so that changes your need for glasses But also as you get older Your pupil size changes.

When you're a kid, your sympathetic tone is way more activated. So your pupils are larger. And then as you get older, your parasympathetic tone starts to take over. So your pupils gradually get smaller and smaller over your lifetime. And so if you've been like, I know you have experience with cameras, right?

If you change the aperture of the camera and you make it a really small aperture, your depth of field or depth of focus changes. And so that allows, um, as people are getting older to have an improved area of focus, like it's a lot larger. And so that allows them to have a little bit more leeway with reading up close.

And that's how new medications are currently being developed so that we can just, instead of people having to use reading glasses, they can just use an eyedrop in the morning that'll purposefully cause their pupils to get smaller and enhance their field of view so that, uh, they don't have to wear reading glasses.

I was actually going to touch on a bit later, but since you brought up the shape, the shape of the eye, um, I actually use, uh, ortho K lenses, um, which, um, most people have never heard of. Um, and. Yeah, maybe you could, uh, sort of give people an idea of what OrthoK are. Because honestly, for me, it has been a game changer.

And I feel like for, particularly people in sports, if you don't want to have laser surgery, which come with, you know, which comes with some other risks, Um, you know, for me, when I, when I started using contacts, I couldn't, I couldn't ride. Um, so first of all, rewinding back, um, the reason I realized I needed contacts when I had the worst injury of my career and broke my hip, um, I realized shortly afterwards that my eyesight wasn't very good and that was potentially why I crashed, um, because I was going through a rock garden and, and I needed to actually spot my line and, and it's at speed.

It's quite hard to actually. Um, every rock, especially when it's a little bit blurry. Um, and so, yeah, I had a, had that accident. And so shortly after I got my eyes checked, started using contacts and then realized that it was pretty much impossible for me to ride with them because my eyes would just dry out so fast.

Um, and then I'd having to be blinking. Um, And obviously it's not ideal when you're going 50 Ks an hour downhill. Um, and then I was looking at options and just doing so much research. And the only thing I could find was, was laser, which I wasn't really in, in, I wasn't really keen to do. And also it was really expensive and then, uh, stumbled across, across author K and I was, it sounded too good to be true, to be honest.

Um, and yeah, it's been, I've been using them for five years now. And it's been an absolute game changer for me. I love that you brought up so many great things. Uh, first you brought up basically the importance of vision and eyesight and sports performance and safety, right? And we can talk about sports vision specifically and how, um, there, there are type of eye exercises and treatments, training specifically to enhance your eyesight as a, as an athlete.

But when it comes to contact lenses and how we correct vision for sports, um, I think it's amazing that you've, you've discovered ortho K and that is an option. So for the listeners, for everybody, who's never heard of ortho K before, it stands for ortho keratology, uh, which really comes down to straightening or the adjusting of the cornea, the front surface of the eye.

Okay. Obviously when people think of contact lenses, right? Most of the most contact lenses are either, uh, kind of a soft or a harder type of silicone type of plastic that we can basically designed to have a different strength so that you can see sharper, but like you've experienced, they oftentimes do have dryness.

Right. You have something physically touching your eye that's moving around. If it's dusty or windy things dry out a lot faster. Um, and contact lenses in general, they do cause the tear film to evaporate faster too. So dryness sensation does come hand in hand with, you know, Uh, with contact lenses and it stinks because if, if your contact lenses are dry, not only do you feel them more in the real comfortable, but they also, uh, can fluctuate your vision.

So your vision may be variable, you know, it's something you don't want while you're, while you're going at fast speeds and going down a mountain. So ortho keratology has actually been around since the 1960s, uh, it's a little bit bigger Transcribed It's a lot high, it's a lot more popular of a treatment option, more in China, in East Asia, uh, but has been growing since probably the late 1990s.

It's becoming more and more, um, readily available. Not, not just everywhere throughout the world, but certainly here in the U. S. Uh, as there's newer designs of ortho carry lenses and a lot better understanding, better tools. I think that doctors have access to in order to fit them properly. So what's essentially going on is you're wearing a contact lens and it sounds backwards because every eye doctor is telling you, okay, we're going to fit you in context.

Do not sleep in them. All right. That's the number one thing people will say. Okay. Uh, and for good reason, your chance of infection goes up dramatically with most contact lenses. But ortho keratology lenses are designed for you to sleep in them. In fact, it's the only time you sleep in them. The only time you really wear them is right before you're going to bed.

You wear them while you sleep, and then you take them out after you wake up. Right? That's, that's, that's your experience, right? Yeah. And, uh, so what happens is the lenses are designed in almost like a reverse way. So they, instead of just correcting your vision so you can see better, they're intended to gently push on the eye in certain areas.

And it encourages fluid dynamics in the cell structure of the eye to shift. And so when you, it's essentially remolding the surface of the eye. And so you take those contact lenses off and then your surface of your eye has been molded and reshaped, which refocuses the light so that you can see better.

It's like having temporary LASIK in a way. Uh, you know, it's like, I'm going to have LASIK for 24 hours. And then the next, then the next night you have to put the lenses back in and you just, every night you keep wearing them. Right. Um, so there's, I think for anybody who's in sports, it's an amazing option because then, yeah, you don't need to deal with, I don't need to worry about glasses and the distortions that come with glasses.

You don't need to worry about safety issues that can come with glasses. You also. Don't have to deal with the contact lenses and the dryness that goes on with that. And so you just need to first be fit in these lenses, which can be a little bit more costly, depending on how you look at it. It's a little bit more costly upfront.

Um, but then you have to just have the good hygiene. You have to get the good regimen. Um, you have to have a better night routine around it, but it can, it can give you that freedom. It can give you that sharp eyesight. So I think there's amazing benefits to that. The other huge area where ortho case actually being prescribed for right now is actually for kids.

Um, ortho keratology, they don't fully understand it. They have some theories, children who are fit and ortho K lenses. Also have a less risk of progression in their nearsighted development by up to about 50%. Uh, depending on the study can be a little bit higher, but, um, at least 50 percent slowing down. In their rate of nearsighted development, if they're fit and ortho K lenses.

So, um, obviously contact lenses, all contact lenses carry some risk. You know, again, infections at nighttime do happen, especially if people are not cleaning, washing their hands or replacing solutions correctly. They're not taking care of it. Um, so we always have to be aware of that. Um, but it's, it's, uh, it's, it's a great alternative for.

People who don't want to go through the LASIK procedures or other laser or corrective refractive surgeries, or again, glasses and other forms of contact lenses are not a good option. It's for me, it's still amazes me because, you know, I've been using them for ages now, but first of all, when I was researching it, it was, I was in South Africa at the time and there was only one place that offered it in Cape Town at that point.

And, um, and that's why I was so skeptical because I was like, you know, this, it's, why is no one talking about this? Cause I was like, you, you wear these things and then you can see perfectly during the day. You don't need to wear glasses. You don't need to wear contacts. And, um, and after I went for my appointment, um, the woman gave me like a test pair.

Uh, and you know, just to kind of give me a bit of a feeling of, of what, what I could expect and she's like, yeah, just wear these for 20 minutes and take them off and you will notice a massive change already. And I was like, no, I can't be took them off. And honestly, I mean, obviously it's better when you wear them all night, but already I could, it was crazy.

And. Yeah, um, I mean the first day when I slept with mine my actual ones It felt like someone hit the hd switch the next morning when I when I took them out and I mean, yeah, it's honestly it changed my From a from a sports point of view. It literally changed my career Like I'd I see better now than I then I did my entire career up to 2019 when I put the lenses on um, and I only 2020 I mean, especially, I mean, in a lot of sports vision is, is essential, um, especially things where you got to catch a ball or where you've got to dodge trees.

Um, but, uh, I think it's so important and it's obviously not without its challenges, um, because you do wear things at night and they're not the most comfortable. Uh, so that is something that was a bit of a challenge in the beginning. I mean, now I would say after a few, after, after a few weeks, you get used to it pretty quickly.

But the first time they put them in you, I mean, they, they're hard. Right. Um, so there was a bit of a, bit of a challenge and every now and again, you lose one, which, which, uh, yeah, presents a bit of a problem, but, um, Yeah, it's really a game changer. And I think if people don't have to do any surgery, uh, I, I, yeah, I just can't, I can't understand why there's not more, um, sort of awareness about it because a lot of people, nor layman people, when I chat to people about it and I tell them that I'm wearing contacts at night, They are dumbfounded.

They have, they're like, what? They've, I've almost never met anyone that's heard of it, which is just wild. It is growing in popularity. I always have to try to explain to people, like these are a hundred percent custom lenses made for each eye, right? It's like getting a custom fit suit, but you're getting one for the surface of your right eye and one surface for your left eye, because the eyes aren't always perfectly the same.

And, um, But you're right there. I mean, it's just a different way of doing things and it's like backwards to what everyone's used to. But, uh, I think especially in sports performance, like you said, like. This eight instant HD effect, like I hate to say it, but like you, you kind of mentioned it, like maybe if your vision had been slightly sharper that day, when you had your accident, would you have stayed on your line a little bit better?

Would you, would that not have happened? Um, I think, you know, it's impossible for us to say at this point, but, um, there's a lot. Behind having sharp, clear vision and how much your brain is able to process motion, is able to track and You do what we call saccadic eye movements, being able to jump from left, right.

Um, to having depth perception, right? If your depth perception's off, how are you going to tell where, where a tree is a rock is, or, or another, um, opponent would be, uh, or certainly a sports, like a ball, if you're playing a ball sport, there's, there's so many components to way you're using your eyes constantly in sporting activities and how your brain is digesting all of that visual information.

And so now there's a whole separate area of, of the field of eye care called sports vision, which includes training, includes assessing and ways to really enhance visual performance. So that, uh, athletes can really not only perform at their highest level, but also be able to, um, just to see and function better.

It's pretty impressive. Is I've heard of something called iGym. Um, um, maybe you have to, I'm sure you have, uh, And it involves obviously training of the eye. And what would something like that look like? And, and, uh, what sort of benefits would, would you have? Because I actually know a few people that have, that have tried it and have sworn by it.

Um, and I actually, at one point was thinking about it. Um, and, uh, yeah. So, um, whether it be iGym, there's, there's, there's several different kind of branded places. Um, and certainly. There are again specialists who go through eye training through training to be an optometrist Most ophthalmologists just focus on surgery, but a lot of optometrists when they finish their schooling they can subspecialize And so there are some doctors who go the route of specializing in sports vision specifically And so they may have clinics open to the public.

They oftentimes work some oftentimes Whether usually not exclusively, but they often work hand in hand with a lot of pro sport teams. Um, and essentially what you go through is not only just assessment of visual performance, but then they have what is called vision therapy. And there's different types of vision therapy out there.

Um, but the types of vision therapy exercises used in sports performance, they are built around enhancing, uh, again, smooth pursuits, how you would An object through space with your eyes to being able to, you know, jump, um, kind of dart around your eyes from left, right, up, down, um, side to side, um, being able to not just move your eyes independently while your head is stationary, but also be able to keep your eyes stationary on a target and then move your head side to side up and down, go different directions.

And. They're using different components of the brain and how the brain is communicating to the eyes and the muscles around the eyes. And so some activities that are used, for example, um, it's, it reminds me of a game even that I've seen at like the, uh, at some arcades at different bars where you, they have lights all around your peripheral vision and in front of you and they randomly light up and you, you have to react super fast to tap those lights.

And so in a way that's training your peripheral vision. Um, not just your peripheral vision, but also your, your hand, eye coordination and motion. And so, uh, you can imagine if somebody does training on that and gets progressively better and better, they may be in a sporting activity where I don't know, a baseball or a ball of some kind is coming from the peripheral side.

They're going to react and have their hand in that position to catch it a lot easier, a lot faster because they've done that training. Outside of just that example, uh, there are types of glasses that are sometimes used that programmed. Uh, some of these are, are even available. Just, I know people can purchase them.

Uh, Nike used to have one. I'm not sure if they're still developing that specific product for Nike, but they have other, there's other brands, but they'll, have you ever seen these? They're glasses that Turn on and turn off. Ever seen that? And you mean like sunglasses? Yeah. They're like sunglasses that are clear and then they become, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have seen that and they do this instantaneously. So they're programmed to have it at different intervals. So they'll, it'll block your vision for like a half a second. And then you can see again, block your vision for half a second, see again, and they can make it faster or slower so that you only get like a little bit piece of visual information.

It's like somebody playing soccer and suddenly someone stands in front of the goalie and the goalie can't see where the ball is anymore and Then somebody moves away and they can see where the ball is again but it's like somebody doing that so they can have to have they have to train their brain to Based on the rotation of the ball based on the speed of the ball the direction It's going for their brain to almost predict where things are going to be going even though they can't see it anymore This could be anything I mean, even not just from a sports perspective, but just from a, uh, a daily life perspective, this could be extremely helpful for, for people.

And, and think about driving your car, um, you know, down the highway. And I've noticed in just myself, obviously being, having been an athlete and having to deal with constantly having to deal with, you know, speed and you have as a, as a mountain biker, you're always focusing on where there's a tree or a rock or a.

And is that slippery? Is it not? Um, you know, how close can you get to this? And so you've, your provision peripheral vision is being trained all the time. Um, and obviously that would be even more beneficial to actually focus specifically on the eyes. But now from a, from a daily life, if you are in your car, um, and it could potentially prevent a car accident, you know, if someone's, you know, running in front of you or car ducks in and, and you're able to act that even if it's just a half a second quicker, that might be the difference between, you know, um, being alive or not.

Absolutely. And there's, there's really two major components behind this. You have first the muscles of the eye and how the eye muscles are working. And the muscles of the eye are really unique because, uh, they're largely smooth muscle. Meaning that even if you train them, they're not going to hypertrophy.

It's not like your skeletal muscle. Uh, but there is a coordination between the signals of the brain going to those eye muscles and how they work together. It's kind of like a symphony and you can train that coordination between the brain and the eye muscles. And that's really what vision therapy is.

And we'll use that for people who have bad concussions or head injury, brain or neck injuries. They'll go through specific vision therapy to re. Train those coordinations to help improve their, their rehabilitation. But the other component, like you were just elucidating to is more of the visual processing side.

And there's a lot of visual process, like a vast majority of your brain is used for visual processing. And so if you can train that visual processing to be a little bit faster, a little bit more accurate, uh, then you're going to see all of these Uh, kind of a cascade of improvements and, and many, almost every activity of your life, you know, how many times are you walking around in your day to day life with your eyes closed?

Um, there's almost, it's almost infinite, infinite to think of how many different activities you could, uh, you could be performing better at. And I, I think. You know, from the, from the, you know, athletic side, I mean, I, I know not a lot of athletes and, um, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that would have been cruising along through their career and not having the vision that they could have.

Um, I mean, especially now my lenses are actually over correcting slightly, um, to, to give me a little bit better than average. Um, but I know a lot of people which have no idea because your eyes, you know, Generally, they, they get worse slowly. So you adapt, you know, you learn to. To deal with it and you don't realize how bad your vision is at least in my case I didn't until you suddenly flip the hd switch on and um Yeah from a from a performance point of view it was almost like um when you're looking at an hd tv And you've got, or you're looking at a camera like a GoPro and you, and you change the, the settings and then you've got the motion blur and then without the motion blur.

And obviously it looks cool on the camera when you've got motion blur, but in your life, if you're going, you know, Doing a sport or heading down a mountain at speed and you can take away that blur and you can actually spot everything It's almost like it's in a bit more in slow motion, uh, which sounds crazy But that that was my sort of experience and and I honestly felt much safer doing my sport after that and i'm i'm pretty sure that many athletes are are missing out on this because they just sort of Too stubborn or just, um, you know, ignorant to the fact that their vision is not as good as it, as it could be.

And it's, it's human nature, right? We're always, um, we're out, we always do things after we notice a problem. We're usually not as proactive about it, but I love that you pointed out that our vision does slowly change. And we adapt to it because it's such a small change. We don't realize it's happening. Uh, right.

It's like somebody slowly increasing the volume of a, of a stereo or something over the course of an hour. You don't, you don't quite realize it until it, the music shut off. Um, so I love that you brought that up. It's a huge component of, I think, eyesight and reasons people don't go in to see the eye doctor, you know, for, it's like, Oh, I haven't seen them for seven years.

It's like, eh, you should probably, you should probably change that. Flipping back a little bit to the, to the health side of it. Um, and, and disease side, what you mentioned a bit earlier with the, um, uh, oxidative stress, um, what sort of effect would diet have on your eyesight? I'm assuming that's one of the big players.

Yeah. So diet does. Affect the eyes considerably, um, both in just what you eat normally, as well as potential supplementation. So the eye being an extension of the brain is one of the most highly metabolic tissues in the back of the, it really in the whole body. And this is because the, not only are they act active and constantly moving, but light is constantly being like exposed to the tissues of the neurosensory retina in the back.

And those tissues are constantly regenerating. So they have to, so, so in the ret, think of, um, the photoreceptor cells that maybe people think of when they, they took like high school biology or something, uh, you have your rods and your cones, those photoreceptors, they A component in them that when light energy hits it, like a photon hits it, it gets used up.

It sends the signal to the back of the brain to say, Hey, you're seeing light. But then that, that photo pigment is used up. So your body has to eat up the used one and phagocytize is what the word we use, but it has to recycle that used up. Photoreceptor or that photopigment and that has to regenerate a new one.

And so this is happening Constantly and that requires a lot of energy and a lot of metabolic processes And so there is a higher level of oxidative stress occurring inside of the eye, but also Inflammatory components that are occurring. So you have both the oxidative stress and inflammation just happening constantly And so there are so diet does play a significant effect and we know that people who are malnourished Um, often vitamin a deficiencies used classically as this example, um, people who are in underdeveloped parts of the world and don't have access to proper nutrition, they can develop night blindness because they don't have enough vitamin a, uh, that can also be a component of, you know, vitamin C again, as, um, if you don't have vitamin C, you have a higher levels of oxidative stress that can also contribute to other problems like, uh, chronic Triggering autoimmune conditions like Sjogren's syndrome, the more dry eye components.

Uh, because of lack of oxidative, uh, good foods that supply antioxidants and the anti inflammatory components of what's going on in the body, then you're at higher risk of, um, maybe age related eye diseases like macular degeneration. And then, you know, People who have diets that are unfortunately, you know, things like diabetes, when you over consume foods, when you have higher amounts of, um, not just sugary foods, but foods with a lot of higher amounts of fat in them, all of those contribute to higher risk of high blood pressure, diabetes, these ultra processed foods.

Um, and that puts a lot of stress. on your blood vessels in the back of the eye, which is delivering all the nutrients for the metabolic processes that are needed, that need that. So it's very much all related. The best foods that you can be eating for your eyes is probably not a surprise for most people.

Um, green leafy vegetables for as much as care, people think carrots are like the best. Yeah, that was going to be, that was going to be a next question, right? Everybody thinks carrots are good for the eyes and, and certainly they aren't bad for the eyes. They do have their role. They, they supply beta carotene to the body, which your body converts in your liver to vitamin a also just.

When you eat carrots, they have other beta carotenes, which are carotenoids are also good for, um, the eye for antioxidant purposes. The green leafy vegetables are probably one of the best things for the eyes, like dark leafy greens, uh, kale, spinach eating your salad is, is really good for the eyes. Uh, that is.

In part because green leafy vegetables are one of the highest sources of lutein and xanthin. Have you ever heard of those? I've heard of, uh, astaxanthin. So there's, there's that. So the, as there's, there's lutein, there's zeaxanthin, and then there's astaxanthin there. There're actually three different things, uh, but lutein and zeaxanthin are found at high concentrations within green leafy vegetables.

Lutein and zeaxanthin of 600 plus carotenoids that are just in nature. These are things that often give colors to fruits and vegetables. Of the 600 plus in nature, lutein and zeaxanthin are the two. And the only two that travel and deposit in concentrations of a thousand times more concentrated in the eye than anywhere else in the body.

They concentrate directly to the eye and some parts of the brain. That's what more recent research is finding, is there is a, they do deposit in the brain. But lutein, zeaxanthin, they deposit in the area of the eye that's like the bullseye. If we were going to go to the pub and we're going to throw darts, uh, if we're trying to aim for the bullseye, the center, they concentrate more, more highly packed in the center part of your vision, that give you your sharp vision.

And they act as both an antioxidant to protect against the oxidative stress, but they also have an anti inflammatory component. And they also work as a shield to shield off high energy blue light, because these pigments are kind of a yellow orange pigment, so they actually block off the high energy blue light effect.

And more research has been finding that people who not only eat higher amounts of these foods, but people who choose to take a supplement of, of lutein, zeaxanthin, they have clinical effects of improving your contrast sensitivity. So your ability to detect between light and dark objects, they can improve your contra, um, sorry, not just contrast, but they can reduce your glare.

So, You know, if you're, if you're having problems with glare bouncing off water or a flat surface of any kind. You have less problems with glare, visual processing, as we've discussed, like visual memory that has been found to be improved for both, not only adults, but they even did a study in children because this is such a safe compound to take as a supplement.

They did it with children, uh, I think ages, if I'm not incorrect, I think it's eight to 12, uh, and they tracked them over a year and found improvements in their visual processing scores when they were doing all their testing. Along with reduced. Eye strain with digital devices. Um, It also has other benefits for sleep and even the newer publication this last year found it helped reduce a risk for atherosclerosis So there's there's a lot of good things about luteinsia xanthin.

So I talk about that quite a bit on my Is our green leafy vegetables the only place you can find those or would you find those in in meat for example? So usually not in meat, but you do find it in eggs. So, um Yeah eggs, the egg yolk, uh, most chicken feed that's used either in chicken farms, or even if you buy it, um, if you have chickens of your own, uh, usually chicken feed that's commercial available has some lutein supplemented in it because it helps the egg yolk look more yellow, golden color, which is part of the marketing thing.

They want people They want their eggs to look good, right? Um, so there's about 200 micrograms of lutein in egg yolk, which really isn't much, but there is, um, the nice little benefit that lutein is a fat. Soluble carotenoid. So you need, you need some fat along with whatever you're eating. So if you're just going to eat straight up kale and spinach, you're not going to absorb as much.

It's not going to be bioavailable. Um, so you always want some level of a fat along with it, whether obviously you're making a salad. If you want to have a light drizzle of olive oil or something on it, or if you want to have a handful of walnuts, I love that, uh, there's a little bit of lutein in pistachios.

Um, So yeah, eggs is a grid source. Um, otherwise, yeah, it's largely found in plant sources. And I mean, nowadays there's, there's so many with diet, there's so many people set preaching different things now, whether it's a plant based or carnivore or keto or vegan, I mean, it's just like, it's, I think it's really tough for people to, to know what is.

What is good? I mean, I think the general consensus obviously is that processed food is not good. Um, but when it comes down to the rest Um, I mean, what's your take on I mean, is there a sort of Best diet for your eyesight. So i've been diving into this This has actually been kind of a side passion of mine since I finished my residency in 2016 Um, and I say that because when I went, when you go through your traditional schooling for like eye care, for example, you only touch on diet nutrition, just like maybe a chapter.

You know, it's, it's, it's barely, it's like an afterthought. Uh, I think in eye care, we get a little bit more exposure to at least the world of supplements, because there are some landmark studies in macular degeneration, for example, where taking certain supplements. has been shown and is the standard of care when some people has a certain, have a certain stage of macular degeneration.

It's one of the only things we can do to treat it until recently, um, is to give certain supplements and that's been shown to slow down that disease process. But again, they didn't really give us much education in doing that. Diet, um, other than just, Hey, uh, higher levels of saturated fat cholesterol. Um, have some connection to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, atherosclerosis, et cetera.

And then of course, some relation to diabetes. The, so when I was in my residency, you know, it's, you don't have much time with patients necessarily, but we're always trained. Hey, if somebody who's diabetic or if they're at risk of a stroke, you have to tell them to eat a heart healthy diet. And so I tell people, I'll tell my patients, okay, continue with your family doctor, uh, take your medications for the diabetes.

I need you to follow a heart, uh, heart healthy diet, and then we'll see you in six months. But I would just do that because I was trained to say that and then at one point I was sitting there I was like, what is a heart healthy diet? Like no one ever taught me that and so I had to I kind of had this this level of genuine curiosity Of like, okay, well, what really, what is diets role in, in all of this for health in general, on top of the eye health?

And so, um, I've, I've been kind of, again, studying this on, on my own free time. Um, and obviously there's a strong connection to kind of, uh, get back to the point. Yeah. There's huge dietary camps, right? We know there's people who are strong advocates for vegan or more, more plant based diets. There's people who are really carnivore diet is becoming is like the evolution of the ketogenic diet in the last five years.

Yeah. Um, and then there's, there's kind of, uh, there's a lot of battles. I think, especially on, in the, on the internet, there's loud voices in this. And there's politics and economics that are all involved in, in food.

If you, if you really follow published science and the doctors and researchers who are doing this research, there really isn't as much of an argument. It's, it's kind of fascinating. Um, so I'll go to, I, because the eyes are so connected to the brain, there's a lot of conversations at, um, at like brain neuro health.

Side of research. And we know that diets that contain a lot of fruits and vegetables do have a higher protective effect against, um, aging of the brain, um, oxidative stress, uh, certainly in the eyes. So, um, not, not to say that people, cause I have. The, you know, there's anecdotes people, there's so many anecdotes in every camp.

Um, and we have to really pull back from just being like, Hey, anecdotes are great. They may be are a hint toward truth. Um, but there's so many nuances and caveats and everything. So we, we really have to kind of look at what. the true data science shows. And right now, I think if somebody wants to try a ketogenic diet, if they want to even try carnivore for some time, they may have great success.

They may feel great on it. They may lose a lot of weight, but on a long enough timeline, they're We do have concerns that they may be at higher risk of many other diseases or problems with malnutrition And so even if somebody is going I think a lot of the best what I've read in the in the realm of people Who are going the route of more keto and carnivore?

They still recommend obviously some level of it's not a hundred percent carnivore. It's like you still are getting some Some sort of leafy greens, vegetables in there. Um, but with the amount of evidence we have toward benefit of fiber, which you get from eating plants, uh, the gut microbiome, the, the research and again, antioxidant, anti inflammatory effects of eating more plants and the diversity of plants and.

That there is a lot, a lot more data to support a more of a plant focused diet.

Within that, I'm trying to be kind of like, I'm just trying to be respectful too. We don't know everything yet. We're still learning a lot. The, the frustrating part The kind of fascinating things I've been studying more recently has been things like the carnivore diet. I've been having a lot of people on my YouTube channel comment saying they've had great success with this.

They're noticing changes. And so I've dug deeper into it and there's not much published because it is so new. There's not much published research on carnivore affecting the eyes specifically. I have seen comments and people make videos and things saying that they've had improvements. In their vision doing a carnivore diet, for example, which obviously it's just their experience so who knows if that's if that's true or not, but Um, it is it is interesting at the very least to hear these, you know to hear these stories from people Yeah, I I so some theories I have based off of what i've i've read and researched now I will just say most of the publications that i've looked at diets have found A higher risk of eye diseases with greater meat consumption.

Um, mainly age related eye diseases like cataracts, macular degeneration. Uh, some component of that is because that when you eat meat, um, like animal flesh, there's higher amounts of saturated fat content in that. Um, and so there's, there's associations there, right? Association, not causation. The. The people who have said that, hey, my vision has improved by eating more of a ketogenic or a carnivore diet are, or, um, even people.

Well, I'll say, for people who feel like their vision's improving, things that I've heard are like, my floaters have gone away. My eyesight feels sharper. What is a floater for, for people that, cause I think, I, I, I'm not 100 percent sure, but I might have one. I might have a floater the longer you live the more likely you are to see floaters.

Um, it basically increases with every decade of life. So if you're 50 years old, you have a 50 percent chance of having floaters. 80 percent chance of having floaters. Um, quick answer for floaters, the inside the eye, there's a gel called the vitreous humor, and it's mostly water and collagen. And, uh, As you get older, the collagen, like our skin, starts to sag and change.

Uh, the collagen inside the eyes starts to degrade. And what's left are little protein bundles of these collagen spindles that are floating around in the fluid that's left over. And, uh, So depending, especially if you're in like a very bright area that has good lighting, your pupil constricts and gets smaller and it casts a greater shadow of these collagen fibers onto the retina.

And so you can see them drifting around. And so that's really what floaters are. Um, so there's a couple different ideas of why if somebody's take eating either a ketogenic or more of a carnivore diet, uh, they may be reporting some improvement in the eyesight could be because maybe their sympathetic tone is changing a little bit.

Um, that's one idea because their pupil size could change. Right. The, the other kind of idea that, that I have to, to it could be because if you've been doing it for several, let's say months, uh, blood sugars could change. And there are publications showing that, um, people on these diets or intermittent fasting, for example, their blood sugar glucose response can alter.

And we know people who are diabetic or at risk of diabetes, if they're pre diabetic, In the body, uh, can cause the lens again. We're going back to that, that lens can cause that lens to swell. And so if there's swelling of the lens, it can cause a refractive shift in your need for glasses contacts. So if somebody's doing this for months and their blood sugar is getting better under control, the swelling of their lens that may have been there for years has come down.

And so suddenly they feel like their eyesight is sharper. So we see that in, for diabetics or people who have been uncontrolled for Years or months and their vision's bad and then we get the medication and then suddenly it comes down and now their vision's kind Of returning back to normal. So we see that we've known that for a long time the other side thing Which I think you can experience in any diet whether it be Um, I think it's more likely to be experienced in carnivore Keto and then people who do intermittent fasting and whatever they're eating Is it's more likely Again, the mental clarity.

Yeah, this perception that their vision has improved and For like my my one of my best friends. He he also has loves a nutrition science but he does a lot of intermittent fasting and he'll fast for three to five days and He'll describe he knows when he needs to eat because he'll head outside and he's in like hunter mode He's super hyper aware of like a squirrel in that tree.

Like he, he has this mental clarity that's different and his senses are like almost amplified. And it, You know, if you could try to make sense to it, it's like, of course, if you're starving, if you're in a mode where your brain, your body's like, I need to survive. He's like, that squirrel looks tasty to me.

Then he knows he needs to eat. That's, uh, that's how he describes it. Um, so I think there is a mental sharpness too, that can come with it and, and how I understand it. And a lot of those diets is you often don't have to consume. As much because they're very calorie dense foods where if you're more on the plant based type of bucket, you often have to, especially as an athlete, you need to consume so many calories and to do that on plants, it means you have to eat so much food.

Plus all the fiber, it's very filling. And, uh, that's like, that's, so you're eating all day long. So you may not get to that same like fasting or, um, like. That mental state, um, that's, those are some thoughts, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's kind of fascinating, but on the whole. I would say on the whole eating, making sure you eat fruits, vegetables, berries, um, more of a well balanced diet has more scientific literature to support that for eye health.

No, a hundred percent. Uh, I mean, I've also been super, I'm really interested in diet and, and, and all of that. And, um, I was interested to do, I, I certainly don't want to be a carnivore forever, but I would be interested just to do a little experiment for, uh, for a month or so and just. Just out of curiosity to see how you feel.

Can you, can you just speak, uh, have you tried carnivore or keto or anything? Um, so I've done a very short, a couple of weeks of keto, but I've done a, the reason I did it is because I did a three day water fast, which is so interesting that you're, I did it actually only about three weeks ago and I'd been talking about it for three or four years.

Um, obviously I heard, I'd heard a lot of the benefits of fasting and I was Curious to try it. I'd done a lot of 24 hours before. And actually funny enough, it is four 20 past four today and I haven't eaten. Um, uh, so I'm just doing a fasting. It's funny. I feel like I. I can, you mentioned the mental clarity.

I feel like I can focus better, um, like doing a podcast or something if, if I haven't eaten, which is weird. Um, but I've, yeah, and I do a lot of faster training and stuff, but I think there's also a balance between fasting too much, um, and the right amount, because obviously you can affect your, you know, can have muscle loss and things like that.

So especially as an athlete, but for me, it's been really beneficial. But, um, uh, have there been any sort of. Um, studies done on longer term fasting and that effect on, on eyesight. So most of the research that I've read on fasting specifically with the eyes is, is actually a lot of it's done on, um, religious fasting, like people who are doing fasting for Ramadan, for example.

Uh, long term I haven't seen much. Usually this is like for people. You know, doing it for weeks, months, that sort of thing. Um, so really I haven't seen anything concrete around that. However, again, we know just due to changes in glucose response due to, um. Potential inflammatory anti inflammatory effects there.

It seems like it could have a positive effect. I did a video on this just this last month on YouTube, kind of summarizing, uh, what is in the publications on intermittent fasting for eyesight. Um, and there is, More support looking specifically at certain diseases, like again, people who are diabetic, potentially macular degeneration, even glaucoma.

Uh, the idea is that, uh, so with glaucoma, it was interesting because they found that intermittent people who are doing intermittent fasting, if they had elevated eye pressure, their optic nerves, this was done in mice, but the, the nerves didn't have, Um, they didn't die off as quicker, meaning, meaning that somehow the nerve had a more of a robust protective effect against the eye pressure damage.

And There is kind of this idea that when you're fasting, you have this boost in almost metabolic, um, I'm not saying metabolic in general, but specifically in your mitochondria inside the cell, which produces your ATP. There's this effect where the ATP production can be kind of turned back on and it has a little bit more cellular energy and may have a protective effect.

It's not fully understood yet. But there is a few public, there are a few publications that kind of support that intermittent fasting or fasting in general may have benefits. Although it hard to say if it's long term or short term. Yeah. It's a, it is a crazy concept though. It's sort of this, I don't know when I tell, when you tell people that are not in that space that you're not going to eat for three days like my partner, he was, uh, she was a bit concerned, but you know, people it's, it's amazing.

You think, Oh, I'm going to die because of. They're like, Oh, I'm starving. You know, I've, I've got to eat, you know, or if you got particularly doing some training and then, uh, I'd go out with a, with a friend who's not really into it. And they'd say, uh, um, and they find out I haven't eaten anything. They're like, Okay, here's an energy bar.

Come on, you, you gotta eat something, you know, like I, I would love to ask you, I mean, um, what I've learned the most from fasting, both talking to my buddy and then me trying it a few times, I think one of the best lessons I've learned from it is that I'm more aware of my body's needs, cravings, and And the relationship I have with food, because I find myself almost, sometimes I end up in the kitchen and I'm looking for snacks or something.

And I'm like, why am I here? I'm not actually hungry. Is it more of a learn thing? Is it because of stress? There's, you know, there's a lot, I think my relationship with food has, has become more clear. And so I, have you ever had that sort of experience or thought? Uh, yeah, definitely. Um, it's, uh, it's definitely changed my relationship with food for sure.

Um, I, uh, I think it, you realize when you're really hungry. What is actual hunger? Because a lot of people think that they're hungry. Act in in reality. It's just a craving, you know, it might be When you don't eat for a few days, and it's interesting that it's actually just a hormone I mean you your body secretes ghrelin and then you get hungry at certain times So lunch time you get hungry dinner time you get hungry, but then it sort of passes um, so I think yeah, and in general I feel like especially after doing a longer if you've done 24 hours or if you've done a few days um your You don't your hunger changes.

Um, i'd found before i'd wake up in the morning and i would be starving i'd be like I want to eat I need to eat now, you know, and now I mean i'll wake up and i'm honestly Not hungry, which I mean it's nice to eat, but it's not in general to eat all the time is not the best for you um, I mean they've obviously shown how much calorie restriction, you know is good for lifespan and things so And Having that for a lot of people that have issues with weight, for example, you know, not being hungry when you wake up in the morning make a huge difference and then only have, you know, only feeling like you want to eat at lunchtime or something like that.

So, um, and, and you're not always reliant on food. I was most people in the situation that they need to sort of plan their day. Like, okay, um, breakfast now I'm going to have lunch then. Otherwise, if I can't get anything, I've got to have a snack with me to make sure that I've got something, but it's quite nice to be in a situation.

Well, where if, if you have to miss a meal. It's not the end of the world because you can deal with it and it's not gonna, it's not gonna really affect you. Uh, so yeah, that's, I think that's the biggest thing that I've, I've noticed. Um, and yeah, if you don't have to sort of focus your day so much around food, uh, it also frees up a lot of time.

Yeah, that's true. The, uh, Kind of my final thoughts around like diet and for the eyes specifically, especially for anybody who is considering, um, just trying to be like more mindful of their diet with the eyes, not only do fruits and vegetables have a place for eye health, but also. Some, uh, Omega threes, which you can get largely from fish sources.

Um, your body can get Omega threes a little bit from plants. Cause Omega threes, there's ALA, uh, which you get from plant sources. Your body can convert it to EPA and D DHA, but it's at a very low efficiency. At least that's what the current research, um, has been kind of focused on. They're not, I've only seen one publication that really stated around the conversion rate, but, um, It's believed to be very low.

Then there's EPA and DHA, which you can get mostly from animal sources like fish are the most common publications. In eyecare research, uh, even in the American Journal Clinic, uh, uh, journal of Clinical Nutrition, just this last year did look at, um, major studies in macular degeneration and found that people who consumed at least two point, if I'm, uh, at least 2.7 servings or at least at least two servings of oily fish a week, they had about a 21% less risk.

of developing and progressing toward macular degeneration. Um, people who had green leafy vegetables, like eating at least three servings of green leafy vegetables a week, uh, had a little bit higher protective effect. It is closer to, um, like 25%. But when they were combined for people who had both the fish And the green leafy vegetables, they had about a, they had a synergistic effect.

They had a 41 percent reduced risk. So, um, so there is, uh, again, we know antioxidants, the carotenoids that are in fruits and vegetables, really good for eye health, but then, uh, because the eye has so much neuro tissue, right? You have your optic nerve. And then the ganglion cells of the retina, they're all neural tissue and neural tissue needs DHA omega 3.

And you get DHA, you can, you can get it from animal sources. Your body can convert a little bit. Um, but there is some evidence it's not fully understood. This of coming out in the last five years that some types, uh, there's different types of, um, of DHA. And most fish oils that you consume, like fish oil supplements, even if they're DHA, they're usually type one DHA and type one DHA has to be processed through your liver and then it's converted so that it's absorbed into your neural tissue.

But there's a type two and type three DHA and some fish sources have more of these phospholipid type of type two DHA, which your body. Can convert to type three and type three is more bioavailable to neural tissue So it so research on people taking supplements of what i'm trying to get to is that the research and people taking supplements of omega 3 Doesn't show as strong of a supportive effect for retinal health as People who are eating fish sources, and so they they think there might be figuring out that link of why So right now I I used to not eat fish very often until I read this research And so then I started adding whole food sources of like oily salmon Or sardines getting those into my my diet on a on more of a regular basis but And so those are just kind of, again, food for thought.

Uh, if you're trying to optimize ocular health, uh, the, uh, and even brain health, cause they're all very connected brain health, heart health, brain health, very connected, um, most research supports a Mediterranean diet, which includes oily fish. And lots of fruits and veggies. Sorry for being so long winded.

Cool. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's great. Could the, could the fish have something to do with the potential rancid, rancidity of the oil? Because. I for a while took I was taking omega 3 all the time and um, And I I do also eat fish Um, but I was sort of relying on the supplements and I mean I did a lot of research and I thought The supplements I was taking were pretty good Um, but then i've heard a lot of sort of conflicting, you know evidence where some Some people like for example ronda patrick are saying that you know Fish oil supplements are fantastic.

And then others are saying that it's you know, it's not good because the oils are pretty much all rancid Which is why they could potentially be seeing differences in people that are actually eating the fish and people that are just taking the supplements But you know, I don't know if it's how much of that is true and maybe there are some supplements which are good It's hard to know for us.

I mean You I'll be honest. I've tried. I've heard this story of rancid oils. Uh, it's been around for a long time. Most of the people I hear it from are actually from the marketing people who sell supplements. Uh, And they're from, it's always, you know, if you're going to start your own oil supplement, what's the best way to out compete your competitor is to say that your product is better.

Why is your product better? Because ours aren't rancid. Theirs are. So that's usually where I hear the most of this argument from. I personally have not found or dove really deep into published research on the true rancidity of these solutions. And if they have. I think I did hear about a publication, but I haven't personally, um, had really had the time to dive into it, but it's a good question.

And I'll, I'll try to research it here, um, at some point in the next few weeks when I, when I find a little bit of time, um, I think there can be some, I've, there's, there, there are arguments around the quality of omega 3 supplements. And there's EPA, uh, not just EPA, um, there's the form, you know, is it triglyceride form or ethyl ester form?

There's this argument of again, rancidity. And there are people I know who are like, gosh, I take those and I get fishy burps. I get, you know, indigestion and. There, there are, I think, some concerns and thoughts about that. Um, and then of course, there's how much to take, uh, at least when it comes to eyes. And there's a lot of research with Omega 3 supplements for both dry eye.

And then retinal health conditions like macular degeneration and diabetic retinopathy. Um, around at least a thousand milligrams a day of omega 3. Whether you're getting that from fish sources or from a supplement, uh, has probably the most evidence to support its benefits. There are a few publications that are supplementing with a higher doses like over 2, 000 milligrams a day of omega 3 for dry eye and At least in those few publications.

They do show a faster resolution in symptoms But it's hard to say in a long term if you really need that much But, um, yeah, I wish I could speak more to the whole rants, rancid, uh, debate. Um, but, uh, it's, it certainly is something, cause then you also have the other, you know, the flip side of the argument is eating the fish you have.

You're, you have the higher risk of whatever type of chemicals or, um, you know, potentially mercury in there, heavy metals, and then. There's economic or ecological concerns for, you know, fishing and the effect of, uh, how, what kind of effect that has on the world and the economy and the pollution and there's all those sorts of things.

So I don't have a, I don't have a perfect answer. It doesn't seem to matter what we do nowadays, no matter what you eat, no matter what you drink. There's always, there's always a dark side to it, or there's always a negative. There's always something that's not good for you. I actually saw someone did a video recently.

It was quite funny on Instagram. And this, this guy puts down a whole bunch of food and drink on a table and then, And then he pops up these windows of other creators that have made videos saying, okay, no plants, uh, meat is bad. So you take that off the table. And then the next one's like, okay, don't eat plants because they're trying to kill you.

Take that off the table. And the next one, and then everything's gone. And the last thing is the water. And then, and then the last video comes up now don't drink your water because it's contaminated. And then he just tucks everything and then there's nothing left on the table. I'm thinking so That's the classic description of our if you look at social media now when it comes to diet, it's just my body Yeah, it absolutely is.

I think um my You know, I try to first eat real food. You know, I tried not to eat anything that's super processed. If it's, I try not to eat chemistry chemistries for the lab. I love chemistry, but it's not something in my, my kitchen. Um, and so I do try to eat things that are, um, as fresh, uh, in season.

something, even if it takes me longer to cook, uh, I'm more happy to have that relationship with, with food and, and investing in, even though it's, it's oftentimes unfortunately more expensive to eat, try to eat healthy and fresh. Uh, I'm, I'm, but I personally see the value in investing that, that money in my health now so that.

When I'm older, I hopefully don't have to invest so much in medications, um, that and health costs. So that's, that's kind of how I, I shift that value in my head. Definitely on the same page as me there. Uh, but it's, yeah. People are easy to go and spend money on things like alcohol or going out, things like that.

But when it comes down to healthy food, it's sometimes a difficult conversation to have. Um, and, and so obviously we touched not a lot on the performance health now. Um, there were a couple of things that, Maybe more from a cosmetic point of view or a Irritation point of view which a lot of people struggle with including myself sometimes Um, first thing is eye twitching And then you touched a little bit earlier eye twitching and then also bags under the eyes what are the sort of main common main causes of those and and how can we Stop that from happening because I mean an eye twitch for me is the most annoying thing and to be honest I get it quite a bit particularly my left eye and I yeah It's again, it's it's something that's it not change.

It's not really affecting your life, but it's just always there Um, and yeah, it drives you crazy so twitching of the eyelid, uh, the the medical term is called eyelid myokymia and While it is super annoying, I remember the first time I had one, I was in college and my eye was, my eyelid was just fluttering all the time and sometimes it would come on, sometimes it would go off and it was bothering me for months.

Well, I knew my eye exam with my eye doctor was coming up in like three months. So I kind of held it off, pushed it off, pushed it off. Um, and the reality and just like he told me then and what I learned later in school is it's largely due to three factors. It's due to stress, fatigue, and too many stimulants, stimulants, mainly caffeine.

And so the, even in textbooks, it's kind of called the med student condition because so many, if you think of like people who are going to school for medical school, they're not sleeping. They are stressed. They're high level competitive, very stressed because they have such high workloads. They are taking caffeine to keep them like awake and powering through, right?

Uh, and so like, uh, if you can picture yourself, what are you going through in your life right now? I remember in college when I went to see my eye doctor, he's like, dude, you're probably just really stressed. And I was like, i'm not stressed. I'm feeling great. Cause I've kind of gotten, I feel like I got used to carrying that load on my shoulders, but then I did went home and did some journaling and started just writing down every single thing I'm trying to manage, right?

It's like, Oh, I'm trying to manage this class and this class. And I have this project due and I have this paper due. Oh, I'm also trying to also go to work and I'm trying to exercise when I can. And I'm trying to see my friends and I'm trying to get this internship. And, and you know, by the time I'm getting through all that, I'm Oh my God, I've got so many things I'm trying to manage.

Uh, and so, um, big thing for people is if you're having Island twitches, cut, cut some of your caffeine, right? At least try to taper it down, switch from coffee to tea, stop drinking your energy drinks. Um, sorry, Red Bull, you know, um, at least for now, uh, And try to prioritize sleep. Sleep is amazing for your brain, for your whole body.

Um, and find something to, to cut the stress, which is easier said than done. Stress can affect the eyes in different ways too. That is, yeah, that is well, when I think about my current situation and obviously starting a new, like starting the podcast, which is essentially a business in itself and making a big change in my career.

And you mentioned all the things you're trying to manage and, uh, Yeah, it's actually, I think we get so used to just having this, just. Bundle of stuff that we're trying to do and all these different factors from home life to work to To exercise, you know, like there's just so much involved, uh, and we get so used to it but it's actually when you write it all down, it's a good good thing to to maybe that I should try because Um, I think i'd be it'll be a bit scary to to write everything down and actually see what what needs to be done I find um yoga And meditation, uh, because they both have so much to do with breathing And kind of turning inward into your body and how you're holding your muscles Because a component of the eyelid myokymia is that you're probably holding your face muscles tight And you don't realize it and because you're stressed and you're holding your muscles so tight because you're trying to control everything in your life You're trying to keep things on track Your your threshold for where your muscle is going to spasm is you You You know, like if you're perfect rest, if this, if this hand I'm holding it for people who can see the video, uh, I'm holding a hand that's, you know, that would be like your threshold for that muscle to trigger.

But your baseline, because you're so excited and you're so stimulated, your baseline is so much closer now to that threshold. So just walking around day to day. It doesn't need very much for it to hit that trigger, and then you get that flutter and spasm. Uh, so that's kind of the idea and theory behind it.

Um, but I noticed, yeah, when I started doing a little bit more yoga, more breathing, trying to meditate, just trying to really get into a relaxed state and let go of some of the things I'm trying to hold on to. Um, That that helps at least for me. And then the funny thing is, uh, if your eyelids twitching, try to take a picture of it or a video of it with your phone.

Cause I swear every time I try to videotape it, it goes away. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's hilarious enough. So now I kind of tell people, Oh, just try to get video of it. It'll stop. Um, and, and what about, what about bags under the eyes? So bags, uh, bags and. Dark circles under the eyes is a common thing that people are always really frustrated about.

It's one of the most frequently asked questions on social media that I get, and it makes sense. You know, we're, we, we care about how we look and. Especially if you're tired and you're stressed, again, it all kind of goes back. Uh, you, you look at yourself in the face and you're like, gosh, why is my skin all saggy?

Why do I have these purple, you know, you know, kind of bags under my eyes. Uh, there, there's two components. There's the puffy eyelids, which are the kind of the bags under the eyes. And then there are the dark circle component. And some people, unfortunately, just due to genetics and the way their skin has developed, they do have more pigment.

In their under eyes, this, uh, more pigment around the eyes. And so they do have true darker circles around the eyes. Kind of gives them that raccoon eye look. Um, so some people do genetically have the predisposition for that. Um, but when you have puffy eyelids. Then that can create a shadow effect because of the way your orbit and the way the light hits the eyelids.

It can kind of also give you this dark circle, tired, um, fatigued appearance. And it's just, it's sort of interpreted as being less attractive. The puffiness can come from many factors. We know as puffiness comes largely due to the changes of the collagen and the, uh, fluid dynamics of the skin around the eyes.

Uh, there's even Uh, what's called the septum, uh, it's a, it's a connective tissue that holds orbital fat within the orbit of the eye. As you get older, that septum starts to degrade and loosen, and then the orbital fat starts to slip far forward. So again, for people who are, uh, maybe listening and they're a little bit older, 60 and above these changes, unfortunately do just come with age.

Uh, for younger individuals, uh, oftentimes fluid dynamics due to salt due to eating, you know, late nights, drinking alcohol, eating fatty foods, you wake up the next morning and you're like, ah, just my whole body feels swollen. And, and that has to do with fluid dynamics shifting. Uh, usually that's temporary.

Few hours, two hours in the morning and it's gone. A lot of there's a lot of, of course, over the counter treatments for these things. Uh, there's eye bag creams and, um, various types of cosmetic, like there's like sticker patches that use around the eyelids. Uh, those usually have some form of, uh, things like caffeine in them is an active ingredient because they cause blood vessel constriction.

And that's really what they are. They're just trying to constrict the blood vessels, decrease the fluid movement to those areas of the skin, get things to contract a little bit, look a little bit tighter. And they're not a permanent cure, but they do help. with just the cosmetic appearance, whether it be temporary.

And then there's some more advanced, a little bit more expensive ones that have more clinical evidence of having a long lasting effect. And then, of course, there's surgical procedures for people who have true changes and they're like, I'm so bothered by this. I just want to see a plastic surgeon. Then then they can go that route.

The best thing you can do, though, if you're just trying to avoid it, One, be cautious of what you're eating, right? Try not to over consume too much of salt stuff, especially in the late evening or high process foods. Um, alcohol, you don't sleep as well with alcohol too. So there is, there is this believed association between sleep and under eye bags, but, um, I tried to find research on it and I could not find any consistent research.

Either it either it hasn't been done or, um, at least with dark circles, they have found that people who don't sleep as well believe that their dark circles are worse, but there isn't actually a, um, a true association between the, between the two objectively, when they measure it with a light meter of how much pigment has changed, uh, they don't find any significant difference with people who haven't slept or people who are stressed.

But perhaps with swelling of the eyelid tissue, then there might be a just I couldn't find any research to support it. Yeah, it's it's but it is a common thing. People are worried about it. Using cold like a cold. Like putting ice, um, like an ice mask or a cooling mask in the morning. Uh, if your eyelids are puffy, putting that on there for up to 15 minutes, don't go over 15.

Uh, but that can also cause constriction of the vessels and get the skin to de puff a little bit. Kind of like icing, uh, like your knee or other part of the body. You don't want to go over too long, uh, cause it actually will cause a vasodilation effect. And you actually make things worse. Oh, Too much of a good thing is not always, not always what you want.

But thanks. How, uh, how often should people get the eyes actually checked? There are publications and research that are done by eye care professionals, but also interdisciplinary teams trying to determine, Hey, what should we be recommending for these? I can say that there, there is. An older consensus that every two years should be a time to have your eyes evaluated as an adult.

Um, S some of the newer publications are looking at interdisciplinary interdisciplinary teams, suggesting that yearly would be more appropriate. Uh, I think. Some professionals based on what they, they, they may recommend, Hey, you know, you have perfect eyesight. You have no health issues in the back of the eye.

You're overall healthy. You don't have history of diabetes, high blood pressure. You don't have these higher risks. So they may say every two years, but I think for a lot of people, if you, whether you have, You require glasses, contact something, or if you have other systemic illnesses or higher risk because of family conditions, then perhaps at least every year getting the eyes checked because we can catch so many different things going on inside the body just with a regular eye exam, uh, For children, it's a little bit different because of how the brain is developing, and the eyes are developing.

Usually for children, the first eye exam is within the first six and 12 months years of life, of six or 12 months of life. Then assuming everything's normal around age of three. And then again, continuing assuming everything is normal around five or six years old before entering like kindergarten age.

And then usually every year afterward. That's usually the recommended. Sure, that gives people, I think people overlook eyes, uh, a lot. Um, I mean, people go to the dentist or they, you know, go for the annual, uh, checkup with their doctor. But I feel like a lot of people overlook, overlook eyesight, um, unless there's a problem, as you said, then, then they're like, okay, now, now we need to get checked out.

But, um, I mean, you can see a lot more than, than just, uh, just your bad vision. Um, you know, as you said, you could potentially save someone's life by, by By seeing something earlier, and I think our, our lifestyle habits around, I care, unfortunately, haven't been super well trained in our society or developed super well.

Uh, kind of like you mentioned dentistry, most people are kind of taught early on that they should brush their teeth twice a day and hopefully floss, you know? Um, and with eyes, you know, what, what, what have, what have you learned to do? Nothing, right? Um, one of the things that people usually. Avoid doing is washing their eyes, and I don't mean like washing the inside of their eyes, but just their eyelids When we shower we try to avoid getting soap in our eyes because it burns And we're finding there's a strong connection between the buildup of oils And the microorganisms that love to eat those oils that live along the eyelid margin and in your lashes have a strong relationship of causing inflammation that contribute to dry eye disease and disturbance of the tear film.

So there, there is a lot of doctors now who are recommending people to at least clean their eyelashes, uh, at least every day or every other day. And there are eyelid, um, like foaming cleansers and kind of eyewashes. That are made specifically to just clean the lashes and around the eyes that don't cause burning, stinging.

Um, old textbooks would say use baby shampoo. However, uh, there are publications showing that the ingredients in baby shampoo have, uh, a risk for causing damage to the glands around the eyelids. So it's now becoming less favorable to, to recommend that. Um, so. There are some products if people would like to have healthier, better hygiene habits for their eyes, especially if you have irritation, redness, uh, around the eyelids and the lashes, um, is to look into these eyelid cleansing products and having a better hygiene routine with those.

If there was, um, You know, obviously we've, we've delved into a lot of different topics, uh, and different areas here. And obviously not everyone is going to be an athlete or everyone's going to be having certain issues, but I think everyone needs to be more aware of their eyes and things. What would be, if you could, If people could have one takeaway from, from this, what would you say would be the most important thing if they just changed one thing, um, if they had to pick one thing that they changed in their life would be an easy change and have the biggest impact, what would you say, uh, would that be, I would say definitely to see your eye doctor.

Um, you know, it sounds simple, you know, for anybody who's listening and they haven't seen the eye doctor, it's been five years, seven years, or maybe you, you've never seen a doctor, an eye doctor, the last time you had your eyes checked was in school. Uh, then. Even if you think you see perfectly, and maybe you do, it's still worthwhile to get them checked because maybe a small prescription could enhance your vision and bring you from Standard to HD like you kind of described it.

That could have just a ripple effect on so many people Things in your life, whether it be recognizing a road sign a little bit sooner when you're driving to performance in a sport, to be able to read more clearly and not have to squint as often, um, or even if your vision is perfect, at the very least, you'll be getting an assessment of potential diseases that could be going on that you don't realize, right?

Many eye diseases, we don't have pain receptors in the back of the eye. So you could be slowly developing. A disease that could take your, could lead to blindness and you don't know what's going on unless you see the eye doctor and they're able to catch it early. So, uh, I think it's, it's definitely worthwhile to be getting your eyes checked.

I have a question, which I ask every guest at the end of the podcast. Um, and, uh, that is what does success mean for you? I, I honestly, this is one of the more tough questions for me. I, I have struggled with this question. I've had other colleagues ask me that, and I've had other colleagues tell me how successful I am.

And I struggle with the feeling of success. I, I, it's hard for me to define really what's what success is or the feeling or the feeling like I have been successful. Um, you know, when I started my journey. In, in eye care. I thought that my life, I was going to finish my residency. I was going to get a job at a local eye care clinic.

I would eventually buy out and become partner in the clinic. And then I would own an eye clinic and, um, I would just see patients every day, you know, five, six days a week. And that didn't, my life didn't turn out that way. Uh, I started this YouTube channel because I was passionate about public education and there was so much about eyes I wish people I wish people knew about I wish there was that resource And so I really started off to become I wanted to just create the like the largest video resource of eye care knowledge just for the general public and it's been seven years now and Looking back, it's like I accomplished that within like a year or two.

So in, in some ways I, I, I, I reached my mission and I have been successful in that regard. I accomplished my goal, but I still struggle with not feeling like I'm successful. So I think, cause you mentioned, you just started this whole podcast. You S you've started all this social media. You kind of have your own, you're on this new, you know, Mission, this course of your own and you're juggling so much, right?

You're, you're like the, you know, you can't imagine a full business has got, you know, 20, 30 people running behind it. I know the feeling. Cause when I was there starting all of my kind of YouTube and social media adventures, you're doing all of those jobs, like it's all on you. Right. You have a lot of gear changes and I'm still in that world.

And so I think I'll probably feel more successful when my own business, my own mission has enough resources, whether that be financial resources or, um, human resources to make it so that I'm not gear changing as often, and it's able to run as like an engine on its own. I think. When I hit that point, I'll probably feel like I've successfully built something that doesn't completely rely on my shoulders 100 percent of the time.

That's, I know it's a really long winded answer, but that's, uh, that's kind of where I'm at right now in assessing what it feels like to, to be successful. Dr. Allen, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for, for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you.

If you guys enjoyed this episode, please like, and subscribe. And to see more episodes, click the link right up here. That was iconic.