ICONS UNCOVERED with Stefan Garlicki

Bernard Kerr's Journey from Downhill Privateer to World Cup MTB Superstar!

STEFAN GARLICKI Season 1 Episode 1

In this episode of the podcast, we welcome Bernard Kerr, a professional downhill mountain biker, team owner of Pivot Factory Racing, and social media sensation. Bernard shares his journey from starting as a privateer to becoming one of the top figures in downhill mountain biking, winning HUGE events like Red Bull Hardline and securing multiple World Cup podiums. He discusses the challenges and highlights of his career, managing the Pivot Factory Racing Team, and balancing his racing career with his responsibilities as a team owner. Bernard also reflects on the value of social media in his career, the future of the sport, and the importance of outside sponsors. The episode concludes with Bernard’s thoughts on success, the impact of change, and advice for aspiring riders.

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Thanks for coming on the podcast. No worries. Thanks for having me, mate. I think it was the second year I was on Pivot and I was driving back from Fort William and I was like, maybe this isn't for me. It's pretty fun, but maybe I should actually look at like trying to get a real job. Like racing is not for me.

How have you done it? Like how do you do it? I obviously must love being busy. Do you think you would be able to race better if you You had a list on your plate. Bernard Kerr is a pro downhill mountain biker, team owner of pivot factory racing, and a social media star. He started as a privateer and is now at the pinnacle of the sport winning events, like Red Bull hardline and having multiple world cup podiums.

And look how aggressive he was in here. This is fast from Kerr at the top. Who's here, just in 75 foot and a go, takes the lead by 0. 9 and red like wild. How much did you win? With coming second in second place. I got 1667 us dollars because they pre taxed in america. So second in the world in insane, I think Any outside sponsor or it's them or Rolex dude.

They're gonna have more money I think we definitely need more outside sponsors in mountain biking success to me as I look at it now is

All right, Bernard Kerr, Thanks for coming on the podcast and also coming on Swapping Lines.

No worries, thanks for having me, mate. We, uh, well, first of all, we're here in your, uh, dream, shop of dreams. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty, uh, pretty happy about it. You got this this year? Yeah, I got this January, I can't remember, January 5th or something. I flew back from New Zealand for five days. To see the dog and um, yeah, basically set this up with Barney.

We had a truck full of like all the racking behind you, you probably can't see on camera, was in a big like box truck I bought for like three grand and stored in another warehouse down south and it was basically moving everything up from my house down there to here and then setting up this workshop, like the Pivot Factory Racing Base and all of our stuff in one place, which yeah, I'm pretty, pretty surreal dude, even now I come back after the race season and see it, I'm pretty happy about it, I'm not gonna lie.

Dude, uh, like, that's a great way to start the year. How, how's the, I mean, what's the situation like at the moment? How was the year for you? Um, yeah. Yeah, year was, well, I mean, this was awesome. Year was up and down though, dude. Like, obviously we had Tasmania straight after this. I got second there, which I would love to have won.

I didn't feel like I rode my best there. World Cup season was tough, honestly. I, um, had a big crash at the first one in Fort William in the semi finals right before finals. And just had a bit of good luck, bit of bad. I, second round at Val di Sole, I think I just slid out and got a concussion, which I've never really had before, but that was real horrible.

So, that was really, sounds weird, tough to come back from, sounds lame. But, um, I was so worried when I came back in a few weeks later of not qualifying. And I was so nervous, dude, and then was on a real good run there, crashed in the wet race. I mean, it's been a hectic season with the weather, you know. I didn't qualify in Ludenville, just bad tyre decision, bad riding in my mind.

And, uh, first one I haven't qualified in like two and a half or three years. So it's been up and down. I finished strong. I got sick that St. Anne would have been nice to be on that podium, but yeah, overall we're healthy so far, touch wood, touch wood. But, um, yeah, I mean, we got to ride our bikes front of the year, got paid to do it and, uh, no real complaints.

Dude, maybe, uh, we could now take me, take us back like to the beginning and How this whole crazy journey started because I mean, like, yeah, I mean, why, why did you get into downhill specifically? Um, yeah, well, I raced four cross with you years ago. Honestly, I was better at four cross for years. We used to race the national series here in the UK and then did downhill and I remember I was at Peter Maritzberg actually with my cousin and I was like, do I go four cross route?

Do I go downhill? And uh, don't know. I just kind of really like downhill. Four cross was cool, but I love downhill and like the big jumps on the tracks and the speed and, you know, I just slowly got better and better, better and better at it, I guess, and, uh, yeah, just loved it. And just with the backing of Pivot, you know, it made it all possible and the bikes were just so good.

And I think that helped me get better and do better at races, so just kind of went naturally in that direction. Like, when did you kind of figure out, okay, that I actually want to do this as a, as a job and, uh, and not just for fun? I kind of always wanted to just do it. Like I never thought I would have a normal job.

Like, I always wanted to. Do biking as my job, but not like, oh, I'm going to be a pro or I don't know. I never really had a thought too much of like, I want to I just always knew I wanted to do that, but I didn't really think about it. I just kept like hacking away at it and I'm trying to make it happen.

You know, like I would not even make any money. I did laboring or I had other random jobs, but as long as I could still ride my bike, I was like happy with it. And then eventually I was like, right, if I can break even each year, dude, I'm winning. If I can just. Survive by riding a bike like that is the ultimate goal here So it turned into a bit more than that now, but that was that was it I guess It's pretty crazy because like I remember you with your caravan like Cruising around to the races and now we're sitting in this, you know Yeah, and it feels like the other day.

Yeah, the caravan was actually the first year. I was ever on pivot I was through the distributor in the uk And uh ollie wilkins hooked that up actually, but yeah the first year I bought a 350 pound caravan You And towed behind a transit van that my mom bought me. Thanks mom. Which was really cool. So I had a good van.

But yeah, the caravan was three 50 pounds that we took to all of the World Cup season and the nationals and stuff. That's uh, fuck. I mean, what year was that? What year was the caravan? That must've been like 2011, 2010, 2011, maybe 13 years or so ago. Okay. I think the first time that I, even 14 that I met you was like 2009.

I was staying in the UK at that time when we met. At a four cross race. Like four cross was huge back then. And that was like, I would do when I went into World Cup racing, my first year was 2008. I thought you had to do both growing up, watching like, Sprung and earth like all the races either did slalom or the four cross the day before the downhill like steve pete greg Menard everyone did it yeah, and I just thought that you kind of had to do that and I was like I just want to ride more and four crosses got jumps and I was way better at four cross in the uk like I could win the nationals quite a lot and downhill.

I wasn't as good and um, yeah, I just thought you had to do both And then after a while, I was like, well, I could just do the downhill and I saw More of the guys doing good at the downhill. We're just doing that not both. So You But yeah, in the early days, dude, Wynn, Baruch, all of us would do the four crosser and the downhill.

Yeah, I mean, they used to do the dual slalom before, even before the four crosser. Yeah, before that it was slalom, and yeah, just from all the DVDs. And Cedric Gracia, dude, he was a huge inspiration back in the day. His open faced helmet, and he was the man. And, um, yeah, I genuinely just thought you had to do both, but then eventually, yeah, it just progressed.

As I think you're seeing more and more now, everyone just has to specify, like not specified. There's a better word, I'm sure, but concentrate on one discipline to be really good at it. And I mean, was there, I mean, people see the glamorous side, people see like Instagram and it's like, oh, you're living the dream and this and that other thing.

But I mean, I know through my journey that there's a lot of challenges that come along the way and a lot of hard times. And was there ever a moment that you were like, In the journey, what was the toughest moment? And was there ever a time where you thought, I don't know if I want to do this. I mean, probably right now is the toughest moment with all the changes, if I'm honest.

And right now is honestly probably the toughest moment ever in my career and running a team. But I think all the teams would feel that, but there was one time kind of early on pivot. I went to Fort William national. I think I remember my eyes were watering. That was like my excuse to myself where I did struggle in the race run.

And I got like 35th at the national on pivot, like conference first or second year on pivot. I think it was the second year I was on pivot. And I was driving back from Fort William and I was like, maybe, maybe this isn't for me, you know, like maybe like it's pretty fun, but maybe I should actually look at like trying to get a real job or like racing is not for me, dude, I've just got 35th at a national, who am I kidding, trying to race World Cup, so.

Probably that moment was really tough and I had a really bad year. I think I got like one year I got three flat tires and a snap chain in qualifying at world cups in one year. And I was like, dude, what like I'm not cut out for this. This must be is this bad luck or am I just not good enough? So there's been a few but yeah, I'd say right now is probably the toughest moment ever.

That's for sure Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens over the next Yeah, next few months and years, I guess don't know. Hopefully dude. We're all scared of change You never know. It could be like the best change we ever see You Like anything changing in your life, especially when you care so much about it.

I'm trying to learn to maybe care a bit less and just enjoy whatever life happens. Like there's so many good things in life you can do and not just racing bikes. So maybe I do something else or maybe I, yeah, I don't know. Maybe it is going to be the greatest thing ever. And we're all just scared and worried right now.

Uh, I mean, so now you've gone through this hard time and I'm sure what have you had? I mean, injury wise, you've been, I mean, touch wood. Yeah. Touch wood. Touch wood. Pretty, pretty good. I had a couple of years, like I remember I got a podium in Leo gang and then like a week later in Leger at Crankworx, I like hit a tree and snapped all the ligaments to my shoulder.

And, um, that was like quite a bad injury. I broke my skate foot at the end of one season. That was before that wasn't too bad. What else did I broke my hand somewhere? And I remember I had to race like St. Anne, like really sore and then. World champs into hardline, but again, it wasn't like a tragic one. I broke my foot actually in New Zealand on a motocross bike once.

And um, that was really bad, like into a season I couldn't ride for quite a while for that, so. And that's still sometimes sore. Because you've had some big crashes. I've had some huge crashes, especially This year, obviously, I had my frame breaking at Crankworx. I had a big one at Fort William. I crashed, my wheel broke.

But, I mean, I snapped my wheel because of the crash. Like, it was only breaking. I had Hardline a few years ago. I had a big one. Yeah, dude, I've had some huge crashes. I mean, I go to the gym enough. You see there's one behind us here in the warehouse now. And I think that's a big part of it. If you try and like stay strong and, and stay on top of things, hopefully it helps with the crashing and injury prevention.

But yeah, I've had my fair share of big crashes. And like when, when you had, I don't know, an injury or you mentioned, you know, you got that result and you were super down and stuff. What's been the main motivation to actually, what, what inspired you to keep going, you know, push through that? I don't think I've ever thought however weird it is.

I've always just thought. I think this is why I care so much. I've been thinking about it lately. Like why, why would I not do this? I've never even thought like, Oh, I need motivation to keep going. I've always been like, this is my only, not my only way out. My only way to survive, I guess, like, this is all I have, dude.

Like this is, this is my life. Like I need to keep doing what I've dedicated my life to. And I haven't even thought, Oh, I need to keep, I just, Have I honestly haven't stopped and thought like until recently like now it's getting really tough to like run run one of these international teams like That I needed to like really motivate.

I was just like as soon as you're injured, okay, right? What's the process to go back and like, okay, what's the next race? I can be at not like a i'm so tough or anything But it was always just like you had to and why wouldn't you yeah, I think trying so hard and social media and everything I've built Such a thing where I've, I'm so proud of it and I've gone so deep and I'm so involved with it all with myself and the team, like what else would I do?

Or imagine starting from scratch now, it doesn't even seem like an option. that I even stopped to think about. So maybe I'm lucky there if I'd stopped and think maybe I would have stopped or worried or done something else. But yeah, I've just kind of kept cracking on out of obliviousness. With the, I mean, with the, like the teams and all that, as you've touched on a bit now, like what's your, uh, what's your opinion on the, the new, I know you have to be a bit PC on this topic, but, uh, yeah, what do you think about the new, the way that the sport's moving in?

Yeah, I honestly don't know. Like, like I say, hopefully we're all just scared of change. Hopefully it's going to be the best thing ever. And yeah, I don't know. It's really scary. A lot of it's confusing, you know, and I'm sure hopefully we're going to get some more clarity on things as the time goes on, but it's really confusing and hopefully it just turns into Rolex and Mercedes and Boeing coming on board as sponsors, which would be amazing.

Don't get me wrong. I would love that, but at the same time I would love to just be out in the woods riding my bike. So yeah, I don't really know where we're headed if I'm honest or what's really going to happen. But as long as I still enjoy the racing, still get to go meet all the fans. Dude, it's awesome.

Now that like people like, I guess your ego that people recognize you and it's cool and people appreciate it. I think that you're putting loads of effort in now because they can see it and you're trying to do the best you can for yourself or your sponsors or. Hopefully inspire generations to come to either ride bikes or go and race or even if it's racing for fun Maybe not the top level.

Yeah, but if you could inspire both, it's it's quite a cool feeling to be a part of something like that So hopefully the racing continues that we can inspire more people to either watch it be involved or even just get on the bike on A weekend, so Yeah, I, I don't know where it's going to do, but there's, there's a lot of opportunity right now.

Like Red Bull hardline for me is an amazing event. Amazing thing they're putting on. And so many people come up to me and just talk to me about hardline. They don't talk about world cups or anything else. They just talked to me about hardline, which is awesome. Or the street races. I was in Italy the weekend for the Sarah Bajo Sarah, if I could say it properly, but they're really cool as well.

We're bringing the sport to people in cities. So people that might have never seen a mountain bike gap, some stairs, or. Go that fast and getting to see it. So there's so many avenues now, I think, which is awesome in the spot. We're in 2024 that we can, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Like showcase mountain biking to people, whether it's World Cup or hard line or that, or YouTube, Instagram.

There's so many cool things that we can do. So growing up, World Cup to me was the only way that I knew that I could become like a pro or like the only way to get yourself out there or become a professional mountain biker. Yeah. But there's so many different avenues now for either myself or the next generation or whoever or you, you know, we're doing this video series and these podcasts.

There's so many cool things now. That we can do. So hopefully it's not scary that things are changing yet. World cups might be super different, but they could be their own great thing. Let's hope they're their own great thing. And we can all focus on content or other things to keep our dream alive of riding mountain bikes professionally.

That's, I guess that's what I think about it. Hopefully. Yeah. Everything's going to flourish in a dream world. We, you never know, but I'm trying to be really positive about it all. And, uh, Maybe we're just scared of change. I don't know. Yeah. I think the, I dunno, it's always scary. I think when there's a big change coming, but, uh, I don't know if I'd want to be a junior now coming into, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah. It's, there's a lot going on and just to work out, but yeah, change is scary, dude. But who knows? It could be. It could be great. Let's let's hope it is. And you're racing in 2025. Yeah, I'm racing next year. Yeah. I still haven't won a world cup yet. I know. Do you know what's funny is like, I've been so close now a few times and even at St Anne, it was just qualifying.

I was 0. 9 off and I didn't even pedal to the line or anything. I was saving my energy for semis. And I'm like. My speed is there. I know I can win one. And even when I win one, I know the next day I wake up, nothing's going to have changed in my life, but it'd be a really, really cool thing to tick off because I technically won one in junior at Schlabming, in elite.

And, um, won the junior category that day, but there was no podium back then in 2009. So I would love to win one just for like a personal goal. And I feel like we've got quite a few people on the journey with us on myself and pivot now that have either followed it for a while or seen it. And it would be awesome to like deliver on that, deliver on that dream for myself and for like the people that follow and Chris and Cindy and everyone at pivot and the engineers, like they've been with us so long now, if we could deliver on that, That dream and that like not hopefulness like, uh, I know you probably know what i'm trying to say It would be such a cool thing to achieve with everyone.

It's about the about the journey, huh? Dude, the journey the journey has been massive. We're 17 years in now and next year will be my 18th world cup season So yeah, we've been we've been trying for that many riders that have been on That have been working with the brand for that long Like no, there's actually not that many riders that have been racing.

I know dude yeah, and I think next year you'll see like blankie and win and stuff for there this year and You They've been doing it longer than me, but from rumours I hear they might be done next year, so It'll probably be Danny, myself, maybe Brooke McDonald, obviously Greg's just retired, so. Next year, going in, we will be either the oldest or some of the oldest or longest serving downhill racers currently racing.

Yeah, it's weird, I remember this year as well, when I looked at some of the start sheets and I was like, the oldest guy in the field. You must have done 2008, did you race in that? No, no, my first season was 2011. 11. But I started quite late. You started late. Exactly. Yeah. So my first ever World Cups were in 2008.

So that's a long time ago now. Greg's first World Cup was in 97, I think. That's insane. Impressive. I would not be going that long. I can promise you that. How do you, how have you done it? Like, how do you do it? How do you race and almost win and run the team, do the vlogs, like date, like, do the Yeah, it's insane.

Uh, how do you manage it? I think there's a lot of support around us, you know, it's not just me doing it. I do like a fair share of it and, and things, but Pivot have some really good marketing staff that help me with getting the riders, sorting the contracts out and things like that. And then Barney obviously now is a big part of it.

He's here full time in this workshop, like whether it's building a new trail bike for me or getting these ready, like It sounds crazy. I don't do my tire pressures or anything like I literally the e bikes are washed today and they were dirty the other day. So yeah, I think a big part of it is trying to.

Have more help doing that. Like it's been a big process, but I obviously must love being busy, you know, and I'm quite proud of like my work ethics, definitely for my mom. Like my parents felt when I was younger and my mom hustled, like we went bankrupt when we were like 14 or she went bankrupt and she just hustled and hustled and hustled.

And maybe without even realizing I've just copied her work ethic or it's been ingrained into me, which I feel honestly so lucky for now. I like. I haven't had to think a lot about it. Oh, I'm working hard there. I'm doing this. You just do it because either you enjoy it or you know what's going to come out the other end.

If I send those emails or if I do all these phone calls and if I train hard, then all this cool stuff's going to come. We're going to get KTM motorbikes. We're going to be able to organize this warehouse so we can go riding more and be more efficient. So I wouldn't say there's like a way to, I know how to do it.

I don't know. Just, I must love being busy. Ollie and some friends have always said I'm a tornado. I'm just going, going, going. Maybe it's. ADHD or something as well. I don't know. But yeah, I feel lucky that I just want to do loads of stuff. Maybe I could do less It's a tough question, I guess but do you think you Would be able to race better if you had less on your plate?

I think maybe yeah, and i've just hired like like I guess she's like a part time assistant lauren She used to work for crankworx. She's amazing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, she's just come on She came to monsoon out at the last world cup and we like onboarded her And And she's helping loads with emails now, because I've never ever sent an out of office email, which I've always been proud of.

But then I do miss some emails, you know? Yeah. And I think Having someone like that come on board and manage it better and organize it in the spreadsheets because I hate spreadsheets. I'm like, Bernard, you need to do this, this, and this today. I've replied to all these. You've got that done. So yeah, I'm really trying to get a bit of help there so I can be more efficient, either talking to sponsors when I need to going to meetings or concentrating on racing or helping my teammates, you know, like, right guys, let's go do an e bike ride together, or let's go do runs or.

Yeah. Right, let's look at lines together and maybe that's going to help me be a better racer because I've been close quite a lot these last few seasons. So I feel like, yeah, if I invest a bit in her now, someone helping me, maybe we can, that can be the final piece of this puzzle. So I can take a bit off my plate, concentrate more, relax, I think more and have more time to outside racing, just a rest would be a huge thing.

I think, yeah, more rest could help a lot. And, um, let's hope that's the final piece of the puzzle and 2025 could be the year. What like, I mean, it's crazy like to run a team like this. I mean, I know just trying to organize myself, uh, how much goes into it. So running a team with all the sponsors, the travel, like the marketing, everything, um, like how many, what similarities do you think you have with sport and business and stuff?

And like, how did you. Go about learning all that stuff. I mean, was that something that come naturally? Or was it, uh, yeah, a bit of a crash course. Yeah, crash. I didn't even think I was learning most of it. If I'm honest, I've just been doing it, which is probably worth like I'm sure if you read my older emails, they're probably terrible.

But, um, Most of it, you just learn as you're doing it. And I don't even think you realize you're learning some things I've had to really like research or ask some advice from people. And it's learning to ask advice or admitting mistakes. Like I know I suck at some things and I'm like, guys, I'm really sorry.

I messed it up. Or like, how could I do this better? Or Chris, the owner of Pivot has been really good at advice over the years. Some of it's been really harsh and tough, but I've needed it, you know? And some of it's like, nice or like, Hey, can you quickly do this? You just learn like we had to set up a U. S.

company for one of these other contracts and um, yeah, just Googled it. Elliot Jackson actually helped me a lot like kind of with that because he was like, Oh, you use this company here for this, this for this. You just reach out to people you know are smart and hopefully they're your friends or you pay someone you'd like.

Just ask advice. Yeah, ask questions. I've always loved asking questions. I know sometimes to my detriment that it annoys people when I ask too many questions, but I would rather ask so many questions to try and not be wrong and know how to do it than not ask questions. So yeah, maybe asked a lot of questions, probably made a lot of mistakes.

You learn from your mistakes. I've probably made so many more mistakes than most people. I would say like so many more mistakes. But then hopefully that means I've also learned loads of things. So maybe that probably made way more mistakes than your average person, which has helped me learn things. I think that could be one of them.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I think a lot of athletes could benefit knowing a bit more about, yeah, definitely. Or like I've learned really. Early on from instagram like sponsors when I did my hashtag stop you sunday and it took off Yeah I got lucky thinking of a hashtag before anyone else did And I saw the benefit of that benefit of that instantly I went to the sea otter classic At the end of that off season was like the first race went to and everyone suddenly knew who I was It was saying this or that or that's really good for shimano brakes Can we quickly do a video today for that or pink bike asked me to do one?

I'd never been contacted to do a personal Pinkbike video at Sea Otter before or anything like it and I learned really quickly the value of Social media or putting your own media out I think like right if I do videos or I do this I'm gonna get coverage the same as Trek Factory Racing or whoever it was I remember they had this amazing video series and Martin Whiteley ran their team and Nico and Justin Leov and everyone on it was so good and I used to love watching that the Parking Brothers film.

Yeah And I was like, right, if I could just do this myself, then everyone will see me. And that was just an observation, I guess, and seeing how much effect that one hashtag on Instagram had. I was religious with it every Sunday. And it just gained so much traction. I think I just saw, wow, this is adding value to me or myself.

And if I work hard at this, it should get rewarded, I guess. And yeah, I think a lot of athletes could benefit off of that. Yeah, more effort for their sponsors outside of the races like on the social media stuff Like what do you think because you're a writer, but you're also a team a team owner. Yeah What counts for more like someone that's getting videos with massive views or someone that's winning a World Cup?

I would say both honestly like from a team owner point I would say both obviously if you can win every World Cup I probably wouldn't worry too much about the videos if you're coming 15th at the World Cups Okay, your friends, family, and your sponsors might say it, but a lot of people won't even know you're coming 15th.

So then I feel like you need to do both to bring value to yourself, especially if you want to, if you want to get paid more. At the end of the day, I believe we are here to sell product. We're here to develop amazing products for Pivot and Reynolds and Continental Tire. But if I can show the wheel doing amazing things or Shimano brakes doing these insane stoppies all off season or outside of the race, then hopefully I'm bringing loads of value to these brands.

Bye. Showcasing their amazing products and if I can do good at the race vice versa But I genuinely believe it's so hard to do good at races To get a top 10 at a world cup or a top 20 even is so incredibly hard but to go out and do a quick video for one hour on the weekend in your off season or In an off week is so easy to do.

It's an hour's work, but it's so easy compared to trying to get a 15th at a World Cup. And if you can do that like in your downtime, I would hope my sponsors see the value and I would see the value in another rider doing that trying to put, and it's even just the work ethic showing that, Hey guys, I want to do this and show like.

I appreciate the support and I'm going to show everyone how good the Conti tire is. Watch me rip this turn on it. So, I don't think you can have one without the other. Obviously, you can have one without the other. You can be a content creator now and showcase it. But if you're just getting a million views of you crashing every week, it's not that good for Conti because the tire is not gripping every week.

But if you can get a million showing how good it is, I think it's, I believe it has value. Hopefully it does. Yeah. But obviously if you can do both, if you can win every World Cup and do the content. I'd say a sponsor would probably be really happy. I think it's like, it would be interesting if you could like have a comparison between someone like Fabio er for example, with like getting massive views, but obviously not racing.

Um, versus someone like Loic who's, you know, winning the World Cup series. Yeah. And who actually sells more I think, yeah, it would, I would love to know as well, and like in my opinion, I reckon Fabio would sell way more t-shirts and hoodies and kit. because people love his brand. They love his style. They love his vibe.

He's such a cool guy. He was in it at the weekend. He's a really nice guy. Like I rate him. And I would say he sells so much more soft goods and apparel. And I bet with his, his brand six series and nine yard than someone at Loic, but maybe Loic sells more bikes because people see that bike performing at the absolute best it could ever perform.

And they're like, you know what? Specialized are amazing bikes because Loic goes this quick. Maybe I should go buy one. But then Fabio might with Canyon because everyone's seeing this Canyon do something cool. And then it might be like, you know, I really like this guy. I want to be on the same cool brand as him.

So it would be impossible to ever really know, but I, I would almost guarantee Fabio is selling more soft goods and things like that. Yeah, it would be, oh, he's got like hundreds of millions of views. Oh dude, yeah, millions on Instagram now. When he's, when I've been in, in Leogang or something and you've seen him come there, it's like a swarm.

It's like Justin Bieber just arrived. Dude, it is, and his, he's like household, like, Anyone that like Karen from down the street can go on her phone and see Fabio do this really cool stunt off a snow mountain, kind of relate to it. Maybe she's skied down it, you know, or whatever. But like Bruni's winning race run, it's impressive, but it's super hard to maybe to relate to a lot of people.

So I'd say Fabio. Some of the stuff that Fabio does is also pretty hard to relate to. Yeah, it's for sure it is. But then other things when he jumps into his swimming pool in lockdown, he's smart, dude. He's a marketing genius. He's an absolute genius, honestly. And um, he gets it. So yeah, I, you never know. I feel like maybe Loic sells way more brakes potentially, you know, because he's showing how incredible he is at racing.

He's a ridiculously good and how good his brakes are at stopping him. And maybe Fabio is better with shoes. It's, it's a hard one, you know, but I think they're both great in their own right, but I never know which will sell more. Uh, switching gears just a little bit, but coming back to the racing side on your side, Um, I know that maybe back in the day you weren't known to train like really hard, but I think now that's changed, um, these days, obviously trying to, trying to win, you have to be at a certain level of strength and fitness.

Yeah. I think Gwinnie changed that probably for everyone annoying. If Gwinnie could never have come along, again, great guy, big fan of him, but, um, yeah, he obviously was just training like a madman and winning all those races. And I would probably get, I think like one top 10 a year. You know, I was kind of like just hacking away.

I do what I thought was training and, um, get one top 10 a year. But after a while, I was like, there's a reason cutting it. Why am I doing 30th every other race in one top 10? I think it was because I had fluke one where I wouldn't get too tired by the bottom, like half a year, I got a ninth one year and it was probably an easier track and I was like, right, this is sick.

I'll just keep going like this. And then after a while, I was like, Okay. It's cool doing okay, but maybe if I actually really focus and concentrate and train harder, I could do good at this. And I think that comes with maturity. Obviously you're just a dumb young kid. Like now I know best. I know best. I don't need to do this.

Look how good I am on a bike. But, um, Yeah, everyone's really good on bikes, it turns out. What, like, I mean, how focused are you on, in general, like, besides training, like health stuff in terms of eating, like, is that something that you really prioritize, like, also the eating part and sort of being healthy and stuff, or is it kind of just, you know, train hard and kind of let the rest come?

Um, train, definitely train hard and have a really good structure. I have my new trainer, Jarek Kolic, he's just launched an app, check it out, if anyone wants to go on my Instagram. Grab. Um, but eating healthy, we try to eat really like pretty good, I would say, like 80 percent of the time, but it's hard through Europe, you know, if you're driving, you might eat at McDonald's here, McDonald's there, and beers, try to be good, not having them in the week, especially when I'm like leading up to the season, maybe have a few on the weekend, but try not to have them in the week, and especially at races, try and have none in the week and just have them after the race.

But yeah, anything in moderation. I feel like me for sure. I've got to be happy to do good. But again, as I get older, different things make you happy and I get happier being healthier. So, um, I have way more water than I ever used to. You know, I drink way more water, dude. I used to hate water, but, um, I think I like it more because I know it's good for you.

And that's just like maturity. Like, right. I know the water is good for me. I'm going to drink more than I'm going to be more hydrated. I can rest better. I can sleep better. So, Definitely getting more and more, but I'm definitely not the best guy out there by far. I could be better. I tried to do good and, uh, Jenna cooked some really good food, but yeah, it could probably be a little bit better than that one.

You, you mentioned before Red Bull Hardline and stuff. What's been, you've had a, you know, you've had race wins, you've had, you've had almost second at a World Cup, you almost won. What's been the best moment for you and how would you rate like Hardline, the feeling of Hardline versus a World Cup? So that's a really hard question actually.

Hardline's insane, dude. I obviously love it and I love, Doing good there. I've won it a few times, which is really cool. But that second was such a weird one because yeah, it was 0. 4 off the wind and it kind of came out of nowhere. Like I've been doing good all year, but not that good. And it was such a weird feeling because it was almost, when I came over the line, I qualified third.

I came over the line. That might be the best ever feeling I've had at a race. Just crossing that line into the hot seat, because, Until that year, I haven't hit the hot seat much, because I normally qualify, if I'm doing good at a race, I qualify, let's say, 10th. But Loic might have qualified 15th at that race, or Laurie Green and whoever, and they're all so good.

I probably can't, like, I've come into 2nd before, or 3rd, and still been on the podium, you know, when it was 5. And, um, it's not that good, if you come across 2nd, you're like, ah, sick, but, but coming into the hot seat, qualifying 3rd, I was like, I'm guaranteed third today. I was like, this is the best day of my life.

That might, that might be it, dude. Honestly, qualifying third there and then coming in a second was insane. And then watching Anne Marie come down and just crush my dreams, dude. By absolutely, especially that day. I was like, and like, and it was such a torment. I got up to the pits at the top before the podium and people like, Oh my God, well done.

You're 50 percent of the people saying, well done. 50 percent of the people saying gutted for you, mate. So you're like, That even tears your emotions, you know, you're like they want to be happy. Some people are happy fun for you. Some people are gutted. I was feeling the same. So between that and a hard line win, I don't know either that or that year I got fifth at the last one at Val di Sole and I got fifth overall and the fifth overall was a pretty, I'd always dreamt to that kind of getting an overall trophy because they used to be these glass crystal like UCI ones and it was actually different.

I was I'm getting a glass trophy. I'm getting a glass trophy. And it was still really cool. It's like a wooden or plastic one, but it was that fifth place podium, like for the overall was insane in, in Val di Sole, and I've always loved Val di Sole. So. Yeah, that was, that was pretty cool. How much did you win with coming second?

In second place, I got 1667 US dollars because they pre taxed you in America. So second in the world. Insane. I think you're there for a week as well. So if you work down a day rate, you probably get what a builder gets, you know. Yeah, that's a week's work to get the people. Oh, it's in one day. It's not.

Let's call it a week's work. Let's forget about all the off season, the flying there, everything a week's work. And obviously you're getting paid from your sponsors and you get a bonus, but the UCI prize money at 1, 667. What do you think would be fair for second place? Well, for, for winning a world cup, for example, it's a tough one because we don't know what they're getting from their sponsors.

Some transparency would be awesome. We honestly don't know what they're getting. Like I know rampage this year was a hundred thousand for the men and women's, which I think is amazing and such a good step forward. And, um, I don't know what's fair. I don't know what our viewing figures exactly are, but What's fair?

I don't know, 100, 000 a race would be nice, you know? I don't know if it's fair. I mean, I think that's what it should be. But that, that would be It's best in the world. Yeah, you're the best in the world at your thing. It's a very niche sport, but I would like to think we have a big enough following. So, I don't know what's fair, but yeah, I think 100, 000 a race would be nice.

You know, the Supercross guy is getting 100 grand a bonus, so. Different sport, so. I can't comment on what's fair, because I don't know what they're making. But, I would love to see, I don't know, even fair, like 25k a race win would be like, Pretty cool, like it just seems like a nice number 25k. I know the slope starters get that a lot.

So maybe, yeah, 25k for a race win and try and pay down a 20th. Surely if they can win a hundred grand for Rampage, they can win a hundred grand for winning a World Cup. Yeah, I mean, it's all different in sponsors. Yeah, so I don't really know how it works, but yeah, fairness wise, no idea. I would love to see it improve, would be awesome.

You ever think about doing, have you ever thought about doing something like Rampage or Fest Series or anything like that? Yeah, I actually did Rampage twice years ago. Yeah. Really? Yeah, years and years and years ago and I missed qualifying by one spot one year and two the next. And my run then was, I just did a really raw run, similar to Brendan's, nowhere near as gnarly as Brendan's, but similar, super raw, super techy, really hard down the hill.

And other people did really quick, easier lines, in my opinion, I'm not saying they were, in my opinion, and they beat me in qualifying and I was like, well, I'm not really that into this if. It's so subjective with the judging. Yeah. So, um, I kind of got over it then didn't try it again for a while. I did try and get in this year, actually, but I didn't have time to make an edit.

So, and we had St. Ann on, but, um, yeah, I would definitely love to do it again. I would go purely for the enjoyment of it, the spectacle. to do a load of cool media and really enjoy the week and create a line that I was proud of. I would not be going to come anywhere because it's a judged event and I'm, I'm very aware of this and everything.

I think it's an impossible event to judge. You're writing down different lines of someone, but yeah, maybe if I stopped racing, that'd be cool. I would love to go to some fest. Sam Reynolds has invited me to dark fest a few times in there. It's always so close to the season. It's risky injury. This or, you know, Even just taking 10 days by the time you fly that out of your training schedule, it's a big block of fitness that you would be building that you're losing.

So it'd be awesome to do, but yeah, I don't know. Just a big bit out of your training. Maybe next year. I don't know how hard I'm going into the racing this year. I can't win a race. I think I'm going all in. Maybe 2026 is my first year. We'll see. Yeah, it's, it's interesting though because you hear from those guys, I mean, Sam hasn't had many injuries, so like even though they're hitting massive jumps, like, I don't know, I feel like downhill world cup down racing is, is snarly, yeah.

Is gnarly. I honestly, I think downhill probably is gnarly and I would just go to fest. I, it's not the injury, honestly. It mainly is the amount of travel and timeout your training. Especially as I'm normally in New Zealand at that time of year, or we're in the UK and we have a World Cup two weeks after it or something like that.

So, the travel there and back, getting over the jet lag potentially, even though it's the same time zone, it's still a big 10 hour flight, um, you're losing a lot of time and I should be doing two sets of race laps within that, a week of gyms, and then like, you know, like it would be a really fun thing, but it's basically a holiday for me when I should not be having one.

It's the sacrifices you make to race, honestly. And that's why I love racing, but at some point soon, I'm going to be pretty happy to be done with the sacrifices and go and drink beers with the boys in South Africa and do some big whips. I'm pretty excited for that, for that part of my career. You, you, I assume you watched Rampage this year as well?

Yes, I did. Yeah, yeah, I did. What did you think about it? Because like, obviously the There was some people that weren't so stoked with the results, um, for various reasons, but I mean, what was your opinion on, you know, how that, how it got judged? And I mean, Brendan ended up 11th, which, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think it's an impossible event to judge.

You're judging people on different courses. Like imagine like racing down two different tracks and you beat the other guy on time. I think it's almost similar. Like it's impossible. Like yeah, I went quicker than him, but I was on a different track. So obviously I went quicker than him. So I think it's an impossible one.

Um, I think Brendan should definitely have been higher placed in my opinion. I wouldn't have put him on the podium. I think he's the man. But these other guys are front flipping 60 foot cliffs and back flipping and 360ing 60 foot cliffs. I definitely, I personally would have put Semenuk in the win. I would have had him in probably fourth and Brendan maybe just behind him or around there.

I don't know, maybe ahead of Semenuk. I don't know. I honestly don't. Brendan's run for me is so rad and I love it and I'm a huge fan. He's a good mate of mine and I loved it. But dude, the other guys front flipped 70 foot cliffs or something like. That is so mental to me. Not that I want to go do Brendan's one, but I can relate to Brendan's a lot more.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I don't want to do that. It's terrifying, but I feel like I could ride down Brendan's. I know I can't front flip off a 70 foot cliff. Yeah, you know, and it's it's a hard one. I think it's evolved a lot from its roots, but it's a change, you know, and I just think the judging concept of it is almost flawed.

It's impossible. How do you judge Brendan's such a tech raw line against a 70 foot front flip off a cliff? Into a double flip at the bottom into a this, you know? But I would love to have seen Brendan ahead, ahead of seminar because his was just slopestyle. You know, I would love just for the, like the love of Rampage, you know, and what I grew up watching, but I can't tell you who's better or worse.

It's, it's impossible, dude. I dunno how they judge it. , but a hundred percent, he should not have been 11. That was an absolute ripoff. But I'm stoked from him because he is, had so much sick coverage off it, which is rad. So, yeah. Stoked from there. Yeah, I think it's, it's hard for people, for people to relate sometimes, like, because.

It's so, you know, he's doing like a more natural raw line and then you've got some Brandon who's doing basically a slopestyle run down the hill. Yeah, exactly. You've got, they're the two extremes I guess, but then you've got the mid ones like T Max huge canyon gap and, Yeah. Um, who else? T Max did that huge canyon gap.

Godziek did so many gnarly things and, uh, Van Steenberg did the front flip off the It's mind blowing to me. That's, uh, that's mind blowing. Brendan's is super tech and gnarly. Semenuk's is such an impressive slope run. So I think you've got like the huge ridiculous cliff features, tech, and then that. So it's just, it's almost, in my opinion, three different styles of kind of runs there.

So I don't know. I think it's kind of developed. Into what I thought was like this huge mountain like huck fest And yeah, brandon's one was weird for me I like brandon's is so sick and raw brandon's one for me was but then I didn't see how big these opposite tailwhips are so Yeah, impossible, dude uh with all these different events like and we obviously talked about prize money and How things are changing like you would see on my Beanie, Responsible Onlyfans, uh, and a couple of, in the beginning of last year, a few of us announced that we were Responsible Onlyfans and there was some, some pushback from the UCI, uh, on that.

What's your opinion on, on Onlyfans coming into sport in general? And do you think it's good, bad? I, I heard rumors about pushback from UCI, but I didn't know if any of them were actually real or if it was just rumors, if I'm honest. So, you never know these days. So I actually had no idea if the UCI did genuinely push back on that or not.

But I think Any outside sponsor or it's them or Rolex dude, they're going to have more money. I think we definitely need more outside sponsors in mountain biking. You can see now all these brands, the ones putting so much money into us to go world cup racing. And it's so much money these days to go with staff and travel and shipping things.

It's how much did you say it is to register a team now for this coming year? I'm not actually sure. I hear rumors of how much it is, but I'm not actually sure, but it's a huge fee. And I think outside sponsors would be awesome whether yeah, it was only fans, Rolex, Mercedes, whoever it is, I would love to see more of that.

You know, I would take, I kind of think axe, you know, Walker's crisps, anyone I would love to see come on board and, um, help elevate this to the next level. Maybe I can have my own little bike park, you know, that's sponsored by them. Then I can build and bring all these new kids through or kids that don't have the opportunities that I do.

If there's more outside sponsors. I think, yes, I can get paid more and have a fancy house, but there's so much that could come with it and we could give new opportunities or do awesome things with this extra money or finance or just backing, you know, there could be some great events or locations we could go to.

So I would love to see more outside sponsors come in. Obviously the sport's changed so much now. Um, what would you say to People coming into the sport for youngsters coming in that want to be you. Uh, I mean, what would you say to them? You know, what advice would you give them? Uh, keep your head up, keep your head up.

It's going to be okay. Honestly, just really enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you're probably not going to do very well. Enjoy it. And, uh, hustle. No one owes you anything. You know, like I feel like you see a lot of entitled people now. Oh, they're getting this. I get that. Don't worry about what anyone else is getting.

You focus on you. You do the best you can do and you enjoy it. You know, if you put your head down and work hard, someone's going to notice. I know for me, with a lot of people early on, I'd be like, I used to, I'd be like, why are they getting that? Where have they got that? And I still thought I would work hard, but you would focus and you would waste your energy worrying about what someone else had.

And you have no idea why they've got that. They might have, yes, their dad might know the boss of that company. So they've got this sick sponsor or you know what, maybe they hustled and they found the right contact to that sponsor. They did all these emails. They might've driven down to the office three times that week to, to meet the guy, you know, and shown the effort to get that sponsorship.

So I think really just focus on yourself, do the best you can do. Obviously try and get the results you can do, you know, work hard and um, yeah, social media, dude, I think is an important thing now, especially if you're not from the place with the best races or the best this or the best tracks, do what you can do.

Like most people, as long as you have a phone now or a YouTube, you can go out and create content for yet YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, whatever it is, and you can showcase your talent and skills to the world. And you could show how much effort you want to put into people. And I promise you, they will notice it.

One day they will notice it. Even if you think it's going un missed for six months, a year, two years. If you keep going hard enough, people will see it and will notice. And I think hard work does pay off. I hear, like, you probably get that as well. So many people messaging you and asking you for advice about how to get sponsored, how to become a pro.

Yeah. But I feel like so many kids Oh, I'm missing the point, like, you know, it's like, don't, you're like 14, don't think about trying to get sponsors now, like, think about trying to become a better bike rider and have fun. And as you progress, things will naturally, it will come. Yeah. Try and be a better bike rider, a better person, a better, like, enjoy it more.

If that's what you're trying to do, just enjoy the process. Don't worry so much. And, um, It will come definitely you might need some advice at points and stuff and reach out send an email if you need to don't just be like can I have this can I have that why am I not getting that just reach out and try yeah exactly just try and learn honestly try and learn as much as you can and uh yeah if you know an older better rider just listen to them I know sometimes we're annoying or you think we're being hard on you But I promise we are trying to help, you know, so if you can listen and, um, yeah, just work hard and never feel like anyone owes you something.

No one owes you anything, you know, you've got to make your own luck out there. And yeah, the world feels hard, it's hard at points and, uh, it might feel unfair, but the world is unfair a lot of the time. But if you, if you keep going, you work hard, I promise your luck. You'll see it's not always unfair and your luck will change.

And you regret any regrets? Yeah, I could have trained earlier. It's the racing. Now, honestly, racing now is so hard. The talent field is so thick and deep. Like there's so many good guys that can win. I feel like if I trained as hard as I had now. And I'd probably taken more advice on or learn earlier, not just thought, Oh, I'm so good at this.

I don't need to train. I genuinely believe it was easier to win a world cup in 2014 than it is now. Like the time was way more spread out. There wasn't such, there wasn't 20 guys that could win. I don't think like now there was like five main guys. So my regret would be not trying harder when I was younger.

I think I've really put myself into the thick of it now. I genuinely believe racing is tighter and more intense and harder than it's ever been. And this is now the best I've ever been. So I should have been as good as I am now, eight years ago or 10, I would have probably had a lot easier time myself. So definitely that I should have started YouTube earlier.

I tried to start in 2014 was way too embarrassed and Raleigh, Raleigh, Raleigh. Oh, people don't think I'm cool. People will laugh at me. I tried to go again a year before COVID. I tried to start two years before COVID before my Anaheim thing. Did one video selfie filming, so embarrassed, didn't do it. And then I started I think a year after that for the super cross thing.

And, um, that would be a big regret. I should have started that earlier because you've seen that it took off through COVID. I had a really lucky boost through COVID, but it's really slowed down now. And, um, Yeah, should have just worked a bit harder younger rather than just trying to enjoy myself and go out partying.

What do you think you would have been doing if you weren't doing what you're doing? I'd either be a boring builder or something in London. I always thought I'd be a stockbroker. I've said that in a few podcasts. I'm gonna go into stocks and like make loads of money. I don't know if I just thought that was cool because where I'm from and like I see them in London I had some friends from school that did it.

But yeah, maybe that I always said that or a digger driver. But I honestly don't know. It's crazy now, like, when you look around, I'm like, Not that I'm stuck in this, but I kind of have to do this. I have a lot of people relying on me. And like, I have the Welsh government that are relying on me to pay rent to them for the next five years and things, so.

Yeah, I'm pretty committed into this now. It's a weird feeling. So I'm like, Oh, what if I just want to do something else? I would have a big task to stop this and do something else. I couldn't just walk away from this. It would be, it would be quite a task. So yeah, you are, you are the business essentially. I mean, everything revolves around you.

So hopefully, and the other riders on the team, obviously like, There's, we have so many amazing writers on the team, but um, yeah, if I stopped, if I just didn't do any emails for the next three weeks, it kind of just stops and they would all get, hopefully they wouldn't lose their jobs, but yeah, like I have a lot of responsibility to hopefully keep, keep it rolling.

So yeah, sometimes when I get back and I see all the stuff I have, I'm like, Oh geez, I've really put myself in a corner here where I, I do have to do this. You know, like I could stop, but it's not, I guess you probably find people that run it. Businesses that have nothing to do with bikes, but might be at some point in the same situation where they're like 100 percent they're like, oh I actually can't stop this now.

I'm like i've gone too deep And I never like tried to start this this just snowballed if i'm honest I never like had a goal or anything to build to a certain size or What do they do in business when they expand? They have like, um, what am I trying to say? There's a different word for it. I'm terrible with words, if you couldn't tell.

Uh, well, if they're going different franchising No, you know when they're expanding, I guess they're trying to expand. They're trying to like make the company bigger. I've never tried to do that. It's just happened. I'm like, Oh, let's add enduro. Oh, let's try and get any masters. Oh, we should get Morgan shot.

She's killing it. She'd be real cool. I've never like purposely set out to like, okay, what I'm going to do now is we've got 10 employees. I want to get to 15, you know, I want to get to X turnover. Yeah. That has never, ever been a goal. This really kind of happened by accident. Like it just started with the team that I got trusted with from pivot and it just, And then like you turn around when I got the warehouse, I was like, oh my God, like I had a bit of a panic the first day I got the warehouse, not a panic.

I did just sit there. And I was like, what have I done? Like I literally have a warehouse now. Like shit. Like I can't just stop this tomorrow. Now. Yeah. Well, even when I was at the house in Surrey, like it was pretty easy. I just had a house like whatever, I'll just leave the house. I legit have a warehouse now, so you have to keep the money coming in or yeah, you'd probably be in big trouble.

So what do you think? So there's a question that I asked all the guests, uh, two questions actually, but this podcast is ultimately to figure out why and how and what it takes to become successful. Um, And what does success mean to you? What do you think it means to be successful? I don't know, because I've had people lately be like, oh, you're so successful.

And I'd never ever thought about it, like, oh, I'm successful, you know. And there's a guy called Jan Stout from, he writes for Pivot Germany, he writes for MTB, right, it's a big thing in Germany. He's like, oh, you're so successful, he's texted me a couple of times. I'm like, am I? And I'd never thought about it.

And I guess, I look at this now and I have a couple of cool cars, I'm like, well, I guess I Kind of am but I don't I would never say I was like it seems weird to even think about that Really like I don't know. What is success? It's such a weird one. Am I successful on instagram? I like maybe because I have Loads of followers, hopefully that like what I don't really know like it's success money is success being famous Which is I think one of the downfalls of people know who you are if I'm honest is it yeah I don't really know I think it could be different I think I genuinely think I've thought about a lot more as I've got older and the worries of running a team now and all these changes success to me as I look at it now is Like contentness and happiness or happiness and contentness don't know how I'm trying to put this like Happiness is success is the main thing I've kind of thought.

And like, I look at Dean Lucas. I know he does some funny things on Instagram and some weird posts, but I, I love Dean as a person. I think he's such a great guy. And I always thought like, why would people walk away from racing? Why would they do this? He's walked away, dude. And yeah, he's got hot girls all over his page and stuff, but I genuinely think he looks happy.

Yeah. And he's looked successful in his new business, whether it's making. enough to keep him afloat. You know, maybe he's literally getting there in a month with a hundred dollars left, or maybe he's getting with a hundred thousand dollars. I don't know, but he genuinely looks happy, which I think is successful.

He looks successful in himself. Do you know what I mean? Like happiness. And that's ultimately what I'd like to achieve. And at the minute, there's, I never think I'm stressed. I've never said I'm stressed. And at the minute I feel like I am because of all these changes. Yeah. And that isn't enjoyable at all.

I don't want that. And that's not what I'm after. And yeah, maybe I'll make money off being stressed right now, but kind of, I'm in a lucky position to say it's who cares. I'd rather make less and be happier and have more free time. So I think success, I would say is happiness and free time or like doing what you'd like with cool people because.

Not that I'm the unhappiest I've ever been. I have all this stuff right now, but I know I've been happier than I am right now. Do you know what I mean? Because of all the stress, I know. Even when I had a tenth of what you see here, I've been happier. So I would say, yes, I'm financially successful, like material successful with all these amazing motorbikes I got given and these amazing motorbikes I'm so lucky to have, but I would like to say success is more happiness and hopefully.

As we transition into this new huge change that you're seeing in racing, it settles down, becomes super stable, and we can understand it, and I can get some of my free time back, and my, yeah, just free time and like happiness, and, ah, we're kind of settled in, this is what it is, I can ride my bike, I can hang out with friends, and send less emails, because that is, I guess.

I know this is a really long answer to your question. Nah, it's cool. I would say that's what success is, rather than just like having money to buy new shoes or cars or something, like it's really cool having them, but um, lately I've been like I want less stuff. You hear that actually a lot from successful people that, you know, like they say like money doesn't buy happiness and all that, like obviously money takes stress away.

To a point, but, but it can also add, it also brings, it brings a lot, even like having these nice cars, they break down and you're like, oh, now I've got the stress of trying to fix this thing. I really enjoy. And yeah, you can really enjoy money. Like I can afford to go put fuel on all these motorbikes tomorrow and that's amazing.

'cause that will make me really happy. Getting to go out on the weekend. Yeah. Ride with my friends and talk about the route on the third term we all hit. Oh, how good was that Ru That is happiness to me. Like that is like I, that's success to me. I love that. And that money does bring that, you know, I get to go ride motorbikes and things like that.

But other things I've definitely learned that I'll get carried away and spend money on these things that then bring stress or yeah, other things, yeah, I don't know. But yeah, success, I guess I'm successful with like the team's been successful at results have been successful. Yeah. My social media following, you could say successful, like.

I started with zero like everyone does on Instagram and I've built it to a successful platform that I can get paid to put adverts on there from brands, which is amazing, but at the same time you want to have it enough so you can enjoy making the money off the adverts. Not just be like, okay, next advert, next advert, next advert.

I feel like. I would love once we get through this transition in racing to try and slow down a bit and enjoy, enjoy the happiness of the things. Go out and sit in the car for a whole day, not get 10 minutes to drive it. Right. We've got to go do five more emails now because I drove my car for 10 minutes.

I've got to pay for that fuel by doing these emails. So, yeah, I wouldn't say I'm quite successful yet because I'm still stressing over these things so I think soon, maybe in a year I would say, yeah, I'm quite successful. Let's hope in a year we're sat back here and I'm being like, you know, I feel pretty successful now, I get to enjoy these things and obviously still work, I love working, but yeah, have more happiness and.

more. So many people try to, try to be, or get to the point that you're at now, uh, and so many people fail, uh, trying to be successful and no matter if it's in sport, business, relationships, whatever. What do you think? If you could put your finger on something, a personality trait, something that support you've had, has it been something that has gotten you to this point?

What do you think has been the biggest factor that it's actually one thing, maybe relentlessness, just going and going and going and going. And I'm lucky. I think I can not sleep a lot. So like I know in like early as him, I would just email, email, email, email, email, email, get out the next day, go ride, go ride, go ride.

I would do a stoppy clip for two or three hours. Not cause I, cause I want to, I want to get that stoppie so good that I know when I put that on Instagram, I'm going up 2000 followers tomorrow in the early days before the algorithm when it was chronological, I knew if I posted a good one, I could probably get like one to 2000 followers.

Insane. Yeah. Like off one post I worked out and yeah, I just loved the, like, if I work harder, it literally, I can just see it work for me. Like it was such a direct correlation. So I'd say my one trait would be just. tornadoing, hacking around, like just going so hard the whole time, whether it's like, now people are like, Oh, you have ADHD so badly.

I'm sure I probably do. I don't think I need a diagnosis or anything for that. So maybe it's that, I'm super lucky I have ADHD, like I know people think, put negative things on these, but maybe I'm so lucky I have that, because I can just go, go, go. Okay, maybe I'm going to leave the bin as I'm trying to charge my phone and then the car doors the thumbnail, it's going to be, Bernard Stokes got ADHD.

Honestly dude, maybe, like. I, yeah, I'm going to forget these things because I'll do five jobs at once, so three of them are getting forgotten about. I definitely forget a lot of things, but I feel very lucky in the fact that I'm not bothered to finish this podcast and go do five hours of emails and phone calls if that's what I have to do to make this work.

For next year, like I would definitely, I want to get to my success bit at some point and be happy and not do the five emails, but I'm only getting to the point now. 17 years. This is getting a lot right now, but up to this point, it is not phased me. Like when I flew back from New Zealand to get this warehouse, I was getting like four or five hours sleep at night because I would pack the truck till 11 at night.

I would get up at 4 AM and I would drive it here and it just. Didn't bother me. I didn't even think I was working. I was just doing it. And like, yes, if I do this, I'm going to achieve this, which will achieve this, which means now I've got a doll workshops. Then Barney can work better than I'm going to race better.

And like, maybe I don't think about it enough. Yeah. Not thinking about it. That's a good thing. Yeah. Cause I don't think I just do it. My like craziness. I just kept going and you just don't stop and think like, whoa, maybe I should rest now. So maybe I'm just lucky there. Yeah. My one thing I'd put it down to, but not work ethic.

I think that sounds cocky, but. Yeah, just, I just like doing as much as possible to get the job done. And I think most things may be in where I've seen it work out is just do more of it or do it harder or better, but yeah, just be better. If I could be better at something, I'll try and be better at it. If I can do the whip better, if it takes five more goes, why would I not do five more goes to get the whip better?

Because then I get a better clip. So now, everyone will see it. Hopefully pivot like, wow, that's the sickest whip. It actually got 100, 000 views, not 10, 000. Because he pushed up for another half an hour. And that's like an easy one to do. Because you just work harder. You know? It's pretty straightforward. It kind of is, you know.

I think a lot of it, you know, like, is just work harder. And you should hopefully get better. And then it will work out. Obviously not in some ways, like, but. Most of them, maybe. I don't know, dude. Maybe I'm just chatting and it's all a load of lies, but the one thing, yeah, I just kept trying over and over again.

Dude, that's perfect high standard. Yeah. Dude, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me on. Hope I didn't just talk a load of shit. Thanks for, yeah, doing the, doing the video and giving us some of your time because as I've seen the last, uh, couple of days, it's very, it's very limited. Yeah, it's been busy.

Yeah, exactly. We've got a bit of an evening on our hands now, but yeah, thanks for having me. I feel like this is a good one. I've done quite a few podcasts now. I try and keep them different, but in this transition, I think in the racing and My life feels really different right now to even it did a year ago with so much changing.

Yeah. And it gives you a really good perspective. So hopefully, I mean, I'll share some of that perspective and. Hopefully it doesn't sound like complete shit. No, it's been, it's been interesting. I mean, I love the ADHD comment. Maybe that, honestly, I reckon I could be really lucky having that because otherwise I probably couldn't have got all this stuff done.

I think that's cool because most people think and see that as a negative and you've taken it and be like I can't really see a negative bar like forgetting to do things or leaving kitchen drawers open. Most of it I feel like probably helps me get a lot of stuff done. I'm blessed with it.

That was iconic.