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ICONS UNCOVERED with Stefan Garlicki
ICONS UNCOVERED is where sports, health and performance meet. The podcast is hosted by Pro Mountain biker, Stefan Garlicki. He has conversations with Iconic figures from around the world with a main focus on sports, health and performance. The goal of this podcast is to inspire and educate people to make the right choices to be successful in their sports and careers but also keeping health and longevity in mind. NEW EPISODES EVERY SATURDAY
ICONS UNCOVERED with Stefan Garlicki
Pro Triathlete Rachel Klamer's INSPIRING Story of Perseverance and Olympic Glory
In this podcast episode, we sit down with Dutch professional triathlete and multi-time Olympian Rachel Klamer. We explore Rachel's journey from starting as a swimmer in a small village to becoming a world-class triathlete. Rachel shares her experiences, including the impact of major personal and professional challenges, her thoughts on success, and how external factors like sponsorships and family have influenced her career. The episode also delves into her relationship with fellow triathlete Richard Murray, their joint challenges, and future plans beyond professional sports.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yORe_FVdQRs
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https://www.instagram.com/rachelklamer/
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s.garlicki.74@gmail.com
Thanks for being on the podcast and making the time. Not only the results. Starting the season with a win is amazing. Make your career successful, but also what you have reached. From the Netherlands, Rachel Klamer! Rachel Klamer is a Dutch professional triathlete and multi time Olympian. She is a World Triathlon Series race winner.
And she is married to fellow triathlete, Richard Murry. What does success mean to you? And Also, what do you think has been the biggest factor that's led to your success? Go see that doctor and that doctor says, okay, you can look for another job, um, because you cannot get back into professional sports anymore.
I've thought about giving up so many times. I'm not going to do this anymore. I just want to be at home I just want to cry and it's easier to motivate yourself than getting motivated from other people
Thanks for being on the podcast and making the time. And I know seeing that I found out today that. Both of you are not necessarily the biggest fan of podcasts, so it's cool, I feel honoured, I feel honoured that you guys made the time for me. First of all, how's it going this year? I know that, you know, this is sort of, you're nearing the later parts of your career, should I say, so How is this year, the Olympics, the, you know, the current situation, should I say?
It's been a crazy year. Like a lot of things have happened. And like what you said, the Olympics, but then we also bought a house and then we're like living here and we're not really living here. And it's been like, it's been all over the place. A bit of a chaotic year and yeah. Notice we're getting older and we're starting to like look at other things besides just being a professional triathlete Which is also exciting but also a bit scary I guess all the older athletes will start to have that feeling of like, okay It's maybe almost time for something else, but not really yet.
So you're like hanging in the middle somewhere. Yeah, and Yeah, I guess it's sort of a point that a lot of athletes get to have to deal with myself included Hence why we're here today. Okay, so now we've sort of touched on where we are now. Maybe take us back, like, let's rewind and, and I mean triathlon is not exactly the easiest sport, uh, for a multitude of reasons.
I remember, uh, Richard actually told me once that he, he said the best race is when you black out over the finish line, so. It's possibly true, yeah. So, yeah, where did it all start? And yeah, how did you end up doing what you're doing? It actually started, like, not far from here. I grew up in a little village, like, three km's from where we are now.
And, um, just joined a local swim squad. I initially hated swimming, but my best friend, she was going to join the swim squad. So I was like, okay, at that age, you just follow what your best friends are doing. Uh, very grateful for that because swimming is still, like, one of the trickier disciplines. And then, um, yeah, started doing some running, started doing cycling, but cycling to school.
Like, every Dutch person rides a bike, so, yeah, to get to school you don't take the bus, you go by bike. Um, so that's how I got into things, really. Never really thought about becoming a professional athlete. I don't know if you ever always thought like, okay, I want to become a professional athlete one day, but I definitely didn't.
Yeah. But it still happened. Yeah. When was the point where you thought, Oh, okay, I want to, you know, actually take this seriously. And yeah, I think it was towards the end of high school. Uh, I was never, I was always a little bit different than the other girls. I wasn't really partying and stuff. I would rather hang out with my family like doing local running races or with all the friends I had from high school.
They were already at university and they did these cool running races and I was still in high school hanging out with them. And that's what I loved. I loved being outside, being active. So I started to realize, okay, maybe I'm actually quite okay at this stuff, so maybe I should give it a try. But then I started running, um, and at the same time I started doing triathlons.
So then, like, the triathlon federation was there, the athletics federation, and they told me, well, The athletics federation told me you have to choose, you can't be a triathlete and a runner but the triathlon federation is like, oh yeah, you can be a triathlete and run, so I didn't really make the decision, I just went for triathlon and did some local running races.
But then as soon as I got a little bit older, actually from the moment I started to the next Olympics was less than four years. So I never thought, okay, in four years, I'm going to be at the Olympics, but I didn't even, probably by the time I started, I probably didn't even know it was Olympic sports. Um, so I knew nothing about it.
I just could swim, bike and run. And then, uh, just, um, yeah, just, just got into the sport and then went to university, uh, but wasn't very successful because it was training too much. And when I was abroad too often, like we were traveling to New Zealand and Australia and then I had exams and I couldn't do them.
So. Pretty soon after that I was like, I'm probably just a professional athlete because I don't have time for any other stuff. So, yeah. And what was it, I mean, why, what was the main reason that, that sort of drew you to triathlon? And so it's always tricky to not say that in a cocky way, but I was good at it.
So I was like, well, I never knew what I wanted to do, like, no, the funny thing is I was absolutely everything but confident. Um, but I finished high school and I had no clue what I was wanting to do. So I just choose a study, which happened to be at the National Training Center. And that's within one year.
Like, because I started doing triathlon and my second race was European Champs, the week before they had me do a triathlon just to make sure I could do three disciplines in a row. First time I hated it. It was like I got side stitches on the run, I couldn't ride a bike properly, I mean a city bike but not a road bike.
Um. So it was just chaos, but yeah, someone told me, Oh, you might be good at this. And I'm like, okay, I'll, I'll give it another try. And, um, within three years I was qualified for the Olympics. It just happened. I never honestly choose. And it's not meant to be in a cocky way, but I just didn't know what to do.
So I just went for it And then yeah now we're here That's it's so insane because I mean there are many people throughout the world that They they have this dream and this goal from a young age that I want to be an olympian and I want to do this I want to do that And uh, yeah, and then sometimes people kind of in a way fall into it.
Yeah not without effort, of course, but Yeah, true. I think that's the, that's why you sometimes last so long as a professional athlete because you just enjoy doing it. You're not doing it just because you feel like you want to achieve something, but you're also doing it because you enjoy it. And I still feel like it is that way.
You just, as long as you're having fun, um, you'll last much longer and your performance will be there as well. Um, if you feel like, okay, you have to do it because you choose to do it or, because it's more tricky, I think. Yeah, it's uh, it's interesting, it's an interesting dynamic for sure. Difference. Yeah.
When you meet people and people ask you what you do, and then you tell them you're not They look at you like, excuse me? Yeah. What? But that's the fun part of it. When you meet people and they do not expect, you've got normal, we call it nine to five job. It's like, well, I'm living a life. Like sometimes people ask me, oh, you're on a holiday here.
Oh, do you have a holiday? I'm like, no, this is my job. I'm actually working while you're Just swimming here, which is awesome. I'm actually working. Um, and then they look at me like, I'm like, I'm not joking. I get the same thing. I get the same thing. Oh, you're just here like nice riding the downhills. It's uh, yeah, it's, it's, but it's hard to explain that to someone if it's their hobby because for them to understand it, like they can't understand that it's work because it's like, oh, but this is what I do for fun.
So how can it be work? But there's a difference between. I choose to do this. For fun today, or I have to do this and for sure it starts with enjoyment But at the same time there are days where you definitely don't feel like No, like that's the discussion I sometimes have with other people and even other athletes Especially when they're younger when they say it has to be fun.
Yeah, absolutely when you're young it has to be fun That's how I got into the sport and you still need to love what you're doing But there are definitely days where you, like, when you're lying in bed and you wake up and you're like, I'd rather just finish a bag of chips instead of going, like, go out and train.
Yeah, like, no, no, I don't believe there's anyone in the world who wakes up every day. It's like, oh, let's get to work every day. No, I don't think so. Yeah, it's, it's like anything. There's always, as long as you enjoy it, majority of the time. Oh yeah, absolutely. But I mean, what you guys do, the amount of training is, is insane.
When I first sort of found out what goes into it, it was just, I was like, what? It's different in every sport, like, and the hours you make, everyone makes them in a different way. Yeah. For us, it's easy to say, okay, we make so many hours. Um, but for you, yeah, like everything is training as well. I guess when you're growing up, it's part of the hours of training you're doing.
It's not just like, you're not going to stop your watch and be like, okay, That was so long and then I'll get back up and Sometimes. Yeah, yeah, but exactly, but you forget about all those hours you're still working, but not necessarily training. Yeah, that's interesting. Still hours. Yeah. Definitely. That's a big thing.
Definitely an athlete perspective that I'm hearing. It's just that to use the excuse of how many hours a week you train. Yeah. All right, obviously you're sitting there with the, with the Red Bull cap on. When did you sign for them? What year? Well, uh, so first my husband, Richard Murray, um, was sponsored by them from South Africa.
And then, yeah, I was like, Hmm, that's cool. Like, can I just get into it? And then we actually contacted Red Bull Netherlands and that was, I think it was 2016, so quite a while already. Yeah. 2016. 2016. You got your first podium, right? Uh, like, at the, I don't know, the, the Good question. Top, top. Good question, I actually forgot which year it was.
You forgot? I don't know, we do so many races and time flies so quickly. Um, probably, yeah, like two 15, I think two, around two 15 or around something like that. Actually, I should, I should actually, I look at that and I'm like, wait, two 15 West European games, it's hanging right there. Um, so yeah, it was like a little bit around two 14, two 15 when I started to progress again.
Yeah. It was just after I met Richard and joined the international coach and, and, and, Yeah, it got a bit, a bit older, yeah. What was that like? Like, signing with a brand like Red Bull, because I mean, it's sort of considered these days as quite iconic for an athlete, you know. Um, quite special. Um, especially because I've, I mean, I grew up in a little village and not much happened there.
I went to high school and I was definitely more like a, how do I say it, like someone who didn't want to be in the picture. I was like, well, just let me do my thing. I'll just not be in your way. Yeah. And then you become an athlete and then at one moment you get sponsored by Red Bull and you're like, wow, that has changed.
Like going from like the shy girl to like, Okay, you know what, I feel like I'm with the coolest people of the world because I've got Red Bull. And, uh, yeah, it's an awesome company to be a part of, yeah, worldwide. Um, so, yeah, I was quite proud, yeah. And I mean, you will notice I'm wearing an OnlyFans cap.
Yeah. Uh, and something that, uh, yeah, I find always interesting to, to ask people what, you know, What their opinion is on it, uh, you know, they're moving into sports and obviously there's this connotation that of this adult side of the brand and You know, they've they're making quite a big push to change that image somewhat and they've got almost 300 athletes now But I mean Some people love it.
Some people hate it. You know, what's, what's your opinion? Um, I think a change is always good within companies. And that's even, even with Red Bull, for example, they're like, Oh, you don't drink that stuff. And I'm like, wait, ask me again. Like sometimes you need to explain to people like why you're wearing your cap and what it does for you and what it does for other people.
Like, Then I tell people, wait, I don't drink coffee. I don't drink fizzy drinks, you know, like, so what, what's worse? Like, and then that you start to see them like, Oh yeah, yeah. Okay. You got a point. So it's the same for you. If you explain people what it does for you, for other people, then it changes the whole thing, really.
So it's with a lot of companies, a lot of things. So I think it's cool. I think, um, when also when Red Bull came into sports back in the early 2000s or late nineties, I don't know, somewhere on there, it was also sort of not as accepted, um, because it's something new and different. And new is always scary.
New is always dangerous. New is always people will, people want to talk about something new and they will always try not to agree with you, even if you are right then. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you're good at explaining things, then yeah, why not? Often people are jealous as well. So they want to have the cat.
Yeah, exactly. So no, if you wear a way proud, then yeah. Ah, that's awesome. I'm sure that was one of your. Sort of highlights speaking. I mean, what I know that I think it was 2018 that you got your first win. Yeah, I think you're about right. I, it's just bad, I just don't know all the years and stuff. Yeah.
Probably if I start to look back, I'm like, Oh yeah, the Olympics were then. And it's also a weird thing because the Olympics and they were like, Five years apart and then suddenly three years apart and it just messes with your brain where like Olympics in 2020. Oh, no, it wasn't 2021. Wait, where did 2020 go?
And like it seems so long ago already, but yeah, it could have been 2018. Apparently Wikipedia says 2018. That's the funny thing that as athletes we're always so focused on like our results and if you have a bad race It's like oh, it's like the end of the world and when you win, it's like wow You But then years later, you're like, well, what year was it again?
It's fine. Like, so everything in perspective, really. Yeah. That's what I definitely learned in life the last couple of years. I think it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's definitely something you hopefully learn towards the later, as you sort of progress in your career and you mature. That's also, um, when I've spoken to other athletes.
Yeah, you know your perception changes a lot and when you're younger, it's sort of like for me. It was racing was everything Yeah, and you know, especially if you've been injured you've had things like that. It gives you a lot of perspective You know and you learn. Okay can't do this forever. No, you've got to kind of figure out grateful Exactly.
So that's that's that's cool. I think especially when you're young You think winning that one race is everything and it's going to change your life and Doesn't really. I mean, yeah, maybe you get a nice sponsor deal or maybe the next day you'll just wake up and nothing happened. And it's just next week it's race week again.
Then that's what happened with me. I, I remember winning that race and only thing I could think of is like, yeah, but that person crashed and that person was maybe not there and that person should have beaten me, but maybe didn't have her day. I'm that type of athlete who will then like, That's probably, I don't want to say that's why I forgot about it, which exact year it was.
I know which race it was, but it's because at my time I was just thinking like, yeah, I won, but did I really won? Like what if, what if, like, I'm, I struggle with like thinking, okay, you know, I won and I was the best that day. So that, that's what it shows that even if you win, it might not mean everything.
Before the start you think if I win today it's going to change everything and then like a couple of hours later you realize tomorrow is just another day. I'm still going to go to the pool, still going to do my local run, like, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, people think that achieving a certain goal, whether it's winning a race or making a certain amount of money or starting a business, whatever, is going to bring them, you know, a certain amount of happiness.
Yeah, exactly that. And I mean it. it does to, for a short time. Yeah. But it's always, okay, what's next? Yeah. You know, what's next. So it's, if you win a race, okay, the next race, you know, it's sort of, so, and that's, I think something that people think when they're younger or when they sort of got this goal that when I get there, I'm going to be happy.
I'm going to be happy. And you get there and then you realize there's always more. There's always more. And, uh, yeah, it's, it's. It's interesting how that, you know, I think you, you know, you, you learn a lot through life. Yeah. So you've also, how many Olympics have you done? Three? Four. Four. Also, like Richard as well.
Yeah. Uh, so I mean, you've won races, been on podiums. What's the, I mean, is there a best moment that you, that sort of sticks out to you in your career? That was the Olympics 2021. This one I will not forget. Um, yeah, I had a really tough year with rigid handling heart problems. My mom passing away the year before.
Um, so yeah, going those months, actually the full year before was just terrible. There were moments where I'm like, you know what, I do not want to do this anymore. It's not important. I just lost my mom and we were very close. Um, it does, it does something with your whole life, with your family at home, with, with how important you see things.
And even I remember once doing a session when I, a couple of weeks after I heard my mom was very sick and I'd be complaining about her like, oh, not getting the time she wanted to do. And yeah, until weeks before I used to be like that as well. But that, that moment I was like, seriously, you're worrying about the times you're not making.
I was like, I got so angry. So then you can see the change, what something in your life does to you. That weeks before I would have been the same, would have been like, Oh, I'm not making the times. And now I'm like. Well, there's other things in life we should worry about. Um, so yeah, I went through, um, big, big struggles.
And then at the Olympics, um, I thought about giving up so many times. I was hanging on, on the bike. I thought, you know, I just get dropped, like, forget about it. It's fine. And then on the run. I just passed athlete after athlete after athlete and I ended up fourth and a lot of people say oh fourth place you know all the people all the athletes who end up fourth there's like so disappointed because it's the first loser I was so happy yeah I was so like I thought about my mom on the last bit of the run and what Richard said about like blacking out it's one of the only races where it's actually the only race ever probably where they had to put me in a wheelchair take me away because I went so deep I'm with 1k to go on the run.
I was in such a pain, but suddenly that kind of disappeared. I was like, you know what? I told myself during this, this is your last race ever. As long as you get to that finish line, like completely done, you can quit. You can stop. That's how I race. And, yeah, that's how I felt when I finished it. So I was like, I'm done.
I could not get up. So when I was fourth at the Olympics, um, yeah, of course it wasn't third. It was first or second, but, um, yeah, that was my, my best race. Yeah. Even though a lot of people probably disliked that race because there were not many spectators and it was not the real Olympics. I think for me, that was perfect.
Uh, not all that stuff around it. No complaining, people. And it was just like, you know, these are the rules, these are the times, let's go with it, like It was just clean. It was just like, it was easy because I had so much to think of already that it was so nice that I didn't have to deal with so much stuff.
Uh, that was like, yeah, COVID actually was good. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. That's a, yeah. Insane story. I mean, especially given the circumstances. Um, for you, what was your, Uh, for me, uh, Now I want to know that answer. Uh, actually it was probably this year because I don't know how much you know, but I had some pretty serious injuries and I've got a hip replacement on the right side.
And it was, I had won the national champs. twice in 2015 and 16. And then I hadn't been, um, yeah, since then I've basically been injured, got injured in 2018 and 19 and it was then was COVID. So, and I never thought I would be able to, I mean, I'd quit actually in 2019. I sold my bikes, everything else I was done and ended up coming back and thinking I'm just going to ride for fun.
And then one thing led to another and then start racing. I never thought I was going to be able to compete on, on sort of the world stage and, and at that level anymore. And, um, yeah, this year I was able to come back and win the national championship again after eight years. And, um, I, I was in tears. Yeah.
Uh, and even though. I mean, I've also, I'd had other results in Europe and that, that were on a, you know, because the national champs, obviously just South Africa, but the level is still very high, but it was just so much that what it meant to me after the journey. Yeah. It's always a journey which leads to a certain result.
It's, it's what it means, like everyone, no matter what event or it's, it's, everything means something different to someone for a particular reason. And, um, when, yeah, I think it was so much more special going through the hard times and then coming back. Because ultimately that was my motivation for coming back to the sport was to kind of prove to myself, no one else, but to prove to myself that I could overcome this.
Sort of setback. Yeah. Uh, in my life. And, um, I mean, I guess for you as well, I mean, what was your main motivation to, to, uh, you know, you said also when you crossed the finish line that you were like, ready to quit . I mean, what has been your, throughout your career, your motivation to race and also come back, um, after hard times?
I think it's, it always needs to come from yourself. If it's other people, you will have a problem, I think. Um, that it's easier to motivate yourself than getting motivated from other people. Um, but for me, it was a bit of a combination from like what I said, like going through such hard times and then think, and often thinking, you know what, I'm giving up.
I'm not going to do this anymore. I just want to be at home. I just want to cry. Sorry, the moment where you're like, like performing so much better than what you could. Because apparently, if you, if I look back at my training, it was, I was like making times I hadn't done before. But at that moment, I didn't really realize that because it was all cropped up.
Like I was still tired and still. Capable of doing more. And then that race, it finally just exploded. I could just like show what I've been doing in the last months. It's always other people secretly as well, where you're like, people always have something to say. And I found that quite difficult. And it's honestly the first time I've.
Say this out loud on camera that there were people who say who were saying like, oh Rachel should retire because She's been a mom passed away like two months ago and she's not over it yet And she's still coming over the finish crying and I'm like seriously, dude, like first of all, you don't know me Second of all, like you've never spoken to me that you'd like Like what's wrong with you?
So people start to say like, Oh, she's done, you know, she hasn't performed. And then only after the Olympics, I realized that what it kind of does to you and not because they were telling me that I couldn't really race well anymore. I was not a good athlete, but because they were like touching my family, you know, that was like, it's like, you stay away from them.
So when I was racing, I really felt like I'm doing this for my mom. I was like, mom, I'm going to show you, I'm going to make you proud. Um, and she told me, whether you believe in it or not, I don't know either. She's like, I'll push, like, if you need me, I'll push you. And I remember thinking on that run, I was like, mom, if there is one moment you got to push me, it's now.
She never did that again. Um, so that was once. Um, so yeah, just because I just wanted it myself so bad. And I felt like it was a good excuse to retire, which never happened. But then you didn't. But then I went for another Olympics. Yeah. So what was the driving force behind keep going? There we go. That was my next question is, is, is.
So suddenly, suddenly Richard Murray shows up and he's like, well, I'm going to race for the Netherlands. I'm like, okay, great. Um, no, no, I don't know. Like. I felt like I wasn't really done yet. So I told myself I was done, but I, I couldn't yet. Also because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I was like, some people say you need to quit at your highest.
You never know what your highest is. Well, that's what I think. And yes, it sounds so amazing that you retire after your best race ever. And that's how people remember you. I'm like, What if I'm still actually enjoying it, without, like, having people say that maybe my results aren't that great as what they used to be?
So I tried to put that to the side. Oh, I need to go. Sorry. I tried to put that to the side. And I was like, okay, what do I want? And then I realized I actually still wanted to continue. And yeah, Richard also started to get back into training more after his heart issues, because that took a while for him to trust his body again.
And then, um, with the Federation, we had sometimes a joke because we had Dutch coaches. That he would maybe one day would race for the Netherlands. And well, there we went. We started that, uh, that, um, it was a bit of a challenge. Um, and he ended up racing for the Netherlands. Let's skip all, all this stuff in between.
And then our next goal was, you know what? We can be husband and wife and we can be in the same relay. Like that never happened, at least in triathlon. It never happened. And then we don't even know if it really happened in other sports. Um, But then that was our next goal to be in the relay together. The tricky thing is we have like international, um, uh, qualifying rules and national qualifying rules.
So international qualifying rules with those, he would have qualified, um, already, but the nationals were like much strict, more strict. So I ended up qualifying. Another girl ended up qualifying according to the national standards. But Richard didn't. Um, so I was like, wait, we need the relay as well. I mean, we all need to qualify, but you're not going to individually qualifying.
So we ended up doing the relay. Um, I had to change my perfect planned Olympic preparation for it. I mean, I had to skip altitude camp and it was chaotic. To be honest, for myself, it was absolutely not the best, uh, preparation for the Olympics, but I, Yeah, I said at the start, like, I don't want to go to the Olympics if you're not going.
Like, the goal was to go there together. Otherwise, I could have done something else. I mean, in triathlon, we've got all these different disciplines and long distance, short distance, cross trial, long road. Like, it's like I can still do triathlon, but something else. But then we ended up qualifying. Then we ended up going to the Olympics for both of us, um, with probably not results, at least not for me, what I had hoped for, but okay, we sort of, um, succeeded with our goal of both racing in the, in the relay.
Yeah. Well, it's still pretty cool to be the only couple that has done that. It was interesting because it's like, if things within our federation have changed, so. It was all a little bit fake and it was maybe not as organized as we're used to and I was like, well, Richard, things have changed a bit. Um, so we went into athlete, uh, the Olympic village and it was this guy from the, uh, whatever they, from the Olympic village waiting.
He's like, yeah, I've got like, wait, there's like, two guys here and two coaches and one girl, but I've got one guy and one girl in the same room. And we look at each other like, I guess that must be Aston, because that doesn't happen. Or at least not often. So he's like, are you sure it's okay? I'm like, we're married.
It's going to be fine. Um, so that was kind of, that was kind of funny. It felt kind of odd. I was like, Hey, roommate. Um, so yeah, it was, um, It was fun. That's quite crazy. I mean, doing the same, both professionals in the same sport, both were at some point sponsored by Red Bull, both competing in the relay, both got fourth place at the Olympics.
Yeah, yeah, no, and that as well. Our dads shared the same, uh, birthday. His parents, uh, wedding anniversary is the same as my sister's birthday. So it's super easy. No, but it's, uh, there's a lot of, uh, there are a lot of funny things, coincidences, but, um, we worked hard for this one. Yeah. When did you guys actually meet and, and.
How did that all come about? Yeah, funny. Um, so we actually met via Facebook. Back when Facebook Back when Facebook was big. Well, we, um, I don't know, I don't know if WhatsApp was there already. We started like chatting, but he actually, like, yeah, he will still laugh. It took him a couple of months to reach me.
I was always trying to like say, no, but this friend of mine is here as well. So I didn't really. I don't want to do too much with him. You made it work for him. I made him work. So yeah, via Facebook really, we started chatting and we had this I said, Oh, we're going on a training camp in South Africa. And then we're going to do this, uh, this race just outside Cape Town.
And it was in Blauberg. Um, so that's where we officially really met. And, uh, we both won the race. We both had drug testing. So he's like, look how much urine I have. And I'm like, this is awkward. Um, so yeah, the rest of the team left early that day. And I just hang around with him and his family and just sitting on the couch.
And now we're like 12 years later, yeah, almost 12 years later, I'm still coming to that same couch to greet his parents now. Yeah, so it's um, yeah, it went quickly, yeah. How did that affect you, like your career as an athlete? Because a lot of the time I think relationships can be difficult for professional athletes because You're so focused on you and you know everything and you have to be but obviously having someone that's doing the same sport that you're doing potentially could have been helpful.
But yeah, I think that let's start with the good things that you will always understand that the other athlete has to train. So if there's a family weekend away you don't need to try to explain everyone I've got to train now we know okay well we got to train. Motivation, Like if I'm not keen to go out and train anymore, and he's like, okay, let's get up with Gregor and I'm like, okay, like you always have someone to train with.
So the funny thing is I never really train. That's why we often probably don't listen to podcasts. So when, when do you do often when you're out training and we're always together, so then I don't really like listen to anything. And if I train by myself, which happens not even probably once a week, then it's so nice to have some silence.
Um, but the good thing is that you understand each other. I think first at the start, the culture difference was quite a thing. Like also because his, he has two brothers. I've got brother and sister, but like his family was already a bit older. And I have a brother who's like nine years younger. So when we came here, My parents made the little house for us ready, but my brother was still in high school.
Um, when he started high school, pretty much when, when we met, so like the whole life was there. He come, he came into this family while it was still like, you know, working family, parents going to go to school, parents coming home, cooking, you know, there's rules, kid needs to go to bed at this time. And then you're like, you get into this Dutch family with their rules Probably also not the standard Dutch family.
Um, and then I go to South Africa and I'm like, whoa, this is like, there's no rules here. It's like all very chilled. Wild west. When I hear stories of, when I heard stories of how he grew up. And I was like, liar, that, that's not, that, you didn't really do that. And then the next week I could hear his mum or his brother telling the exactly same story.
I'm like, well, you had a different youth than I had, but that's cool. Like now, of course, you're just like, it's just normal. Everything is just normal. But yeah, that was, uh, interesting. That was my next question. Next question was, what do you think, what was your impression of, of South Africa? I mean, I'd assume, had you been there before, or the time that you met was No, I had, it was my first time in South Africa.
Um, so my parents were both doctors and they worked in Zimbabwe. So I was born in Zimbabwe. Oh really? Yeah, so I was born there. So the funny thing is apparently when I was young, uh, I always told my sister I'm gonna marry someone from Africa one day. I do not remember, but that's what my sister says. Well, there we go, it happened.
Um, so for me Even though I was still young, I was like just, just under four when we left. And I always felt like I really wanted to go back to that part of the world. Um, even we spoke about it today that when I was at primary school, you know, people were like, I was born in the hospital. I was born at home.
And I'm like, I was born in Africa. And kids were like, you were not born in Africa. That's too far away. Like, you know, and things like that. Um, so I always had the feeling, okay, I wanted to go back there. So. I never, it didn't feel weird, like it felt normal, I mean after at least all the stories my parents told me, I don't have that many memories of course from when I was a little, very little.
Um, but yeah. So you're actually African. Actually, I even have an African name, you can laugh about it. But I've got three names, my first name, my last name and my middle name. So I have never African names, so who knows I'm more African than you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's no idea actually. There we go. Yeah.
So that's why you sometimes see giraffes and stuff like that. Richard didn't bring the giraffes. Funny, yeah. Something new. So you guys, I think, uh, told me you guys got together 2014 or was it? 13. 13. Um, and in, you know, had your career and then in 2021, which I already know was, that time was a difficult time.
And then Richard had his heart issue. I mean, how is that? For, for you, like being, you know, the, the partner there, uh, cause I can imagine that is not easy also, and especially the time wasn't easy as it is. No, it wasn't. Um, so first my mum, I was in South Africa, we were like prepping the last couple of months before the Olympics.
Yeah. And it was a Thursday evening and my parents, we always as a family used to go to the track to run at the track on Thursday evening. And they called me and I'm like, it's Thursday evening. Why would they call me? Something must be wrong. But I thought maybe my grandparents or something. This took me straight to the point that my mom was sick.
So there I am other side of the world prepping for the Olympics. And my mom was like, I want you to still focus on the Olympics. I want you to go there. And I'm just gonna, I'm just going, I'm coming with you. Like, you know, we said we weren't, but I'm coming, coming with you. Uh, then COVID hit, Olympics got postponed.
I went home a little bit earlier because my mum, like, like, it went bad quickly. Uh, exactly six months later, after she got diagnosed with cancer, she passed away. And um, even for Richard being part of, we, we quickly got married, um, because we wanted my mum to be there as well, to, you Because I'm the oldest to at least have one of her kids, uh, getting married.
So that was a bit also for Richard difficult. You're getting married, um, without your own family in COVID time, you know, quickly do the ceremony and couldn't go out for dinner. So my sister, who's a good cook, at least cooked like a lot of good food, but okay. Then we were suddenly married sitting here waiting like, okay, what now?
And so just before the Olympics were supposed to happen, my mom passed away. And six months later, again, six months, pretty much on the date, we're back in South Africa, um, swimming and Richard doesn't start, doesn't feel well. And I've always been quite harsh to Richard when we always jokes. Yeah. I don't know what he has said, but it's the truth.
We always say, come on, don't, don't complain. We have, we have a coach who only coaches girls. Okay. Yeah. So we always joke that he's the softest. He will, hopefully he can laugh about it now. I say I was always being quite harsh. It was like, come on, like, just like, Oh, something's sore. It's like, Oh, what else is sore?
Like, just keep going. But this time I could see in his face that something was serious. So I drove him home. I, for the first time ever in South Africa, had a manual car, but I mean, I mean, you're not driving if you've got something with your heart. I went to the hospital and there I called my dad, I was like, well, we're in the hospital, like Richard is not feeling unwell, something with his heart, we go and see that doctor and that doctor says, okay, um, like you can look for another job, um, because you cannot get back into professional sports anymore.
And I don't know why, but the message was so like, I started crying. I was standing behind Richard and his dad and I thought, not, not another person, because at that moment I wasn't sure what was going on and how bad it was. So I thought, I cannot lose someone else because at that moment I didn't know that it's a standard, well not a standard thing, but that he's not going to be the only professional athlete with it.
So, yeah, then I was like, okay, there we are again, again, six months before the Olympics and now this. So when it ended up, yeah, he ended up getting things fixed, sort of, going back to the Netherlands, um, but the medication didn't really help. At the end he needed to get an operation, but that was Only probably two months or less before the Olympics.
And I was like, okay, first I went through the period with my mom. Then I had to deal with Richard. I was, I was done. I had to leave if I wanted to still perform well at the Olympics. I couldn't stay here. So I went to France for training camp with my coaches and, uh, there were actually only two more athletes there, but they really got me through.
But that meant I had to leave Richard here with my dad. So Richard had his operation done and then I remember that moment I was supposed to do a hard swim set and I gave my phone to the coach, like, please, like, as soon as he messages, let me know because then I know it's going to be okay. Well, I could not do that swim.
Um, but then I was there training camp without him. knowing he was not going to make the Olympics. Then I go back and we decided, you know, maybe just do the relay, you know, just cancel your own race. And I don't know if he told you about that. So yeah. And then he doesn't end up racing. Um, But I'm very glad he was there and that he was my biggest support in everything.
That's the first thing. Okay. Sorry. The first thing I thought about was my mom and the second one was like, I'm glad Richard is there. Um, but yeah, to at least have him there, that meant a lot to me. That was, uh, yeah, that was good. Yeah. So it was, and then you ended up getting an amazing result. Yeah. Fourth place.
Yeah. I knew I was never going to do that again. Yeah. Like for some reason, I think, because you, You get so strong and you've got through so many difficult things that you're like, you know what, if I got through all of those things, I can get through the Olympics. I can, I can do more than I think I'm capable of doing.
Yeah. Or perspective. Yeah. Speaking of, I mean, of perspective, I mean, looking back, uh, your career. Would there have been anything now that you might have done differently? No, I think when I met Richard, I also moved to his coach because I was young, always getting injured. I had only been an athlete for, what, like since 212, uh, professional athlete, pretty much.
So I started in 2008 and I met him and I was like, okay, um, I don't know, maybe I should go back to university and not give this a go because I'm always injured and I'm not enjoying it. Then I met him and got a new coach. And sometimes I think, okay, maybe if I, Put more effort into the details. I could have trained more.
I could have trained harder I could have been stricter for myself, for my diet, for the people around me But I don't think that would have made me a happier athlete. So yeah, looking back I think maybe I could have taken more out of myself as an athlete But I also see athletes who are only living as an athlete.
And I think I also just need some fun around it. So yeah, sometimes that means skipping a session to hang out with the family and a family weekend or whatnot. Yeah. Okay. I did that and yeah, would I, maybe if I didn't do that, maybe I would have been a better athlete, but I would not have been happier. And I think you're not a professional athlete your whole life, so it's, yeah, now I can say, okay, I had a really awesome career and I'm still happy, healthy, I'm still enjoying it, but I don't know if I would have lasted so long.
I don't know if I would have made it for Olympics if I would have always been so strict for myself. So, yeah, I don't regret doing it, but sometimes wonder, like, what if I would have lived like Yeah. Like, the perfect athlete, yeah. Not go out for dinner, but just be like super healthy and not go hang out with friends but do your training session, sleep enough, not watching movies till midnight, you know, uh, doing the perfect things perfect, yeah.
But I think that's, yeah, I mean, being happy is also, makes you perform better, you know, to a degree. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And remembering that Rachel as a person comes before Rachel as an athlete. Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, I mean, you, you touched on it already before, but, um, your, what's, what's next?
Like what's your plans? I know that you've got this, uh, farm up the road, uh, what, what's the sort of next, I mean, do you guys plan to have a family? What's the sort of next few years look like for you? It's tricky, um, because, you know, we're all getting older and, um, It's funny, we're all saying we're getting older and we're like, We're like in our thirties.
Yeah, but I notice it. I don't know if you notice, but I notice the difference. When I, ten years ago, five years ago, when I got out of bed, I'm like, Now I get out of bed and I'm like, oh, my feet are sore and I need to walk on my heels to the bar. Yeah, because I have an injury in my foot which, which can't be healed.
Yeah, they can cut it out, but then I lose the feeling in my foot. Yeah, it is so. What do we accept? Numb foot or pain in my foot, you know, like stupid things like that. So if something happens, if a friend will say like, Oh, can you come over and help me this afternoon that I'm like, yeah, sure. Instead of saying, no, I have to train.
Um, so just not, if I don't want to go to a race that I'm not going. And instead of feeling like, yeah, but I need to do that race because it fits in the points and whatnot. So now we're randomly doing World Championships Xterra. I mean, please. I hope he will not find a live stream because my dad is like, well, you decided it yourself.
I'm like, yeah, it's a challenge. But now I look at the other girls and I look at the bike course. I'm like, I did not grow up mountain biking. I do not want to wear my Red Bull helmet when I go down there because that reminds me of South Africa and someone's like, are you that person? I'm like. Oh, God, no.
Like, go ahead. I'm like, no, no, no. You go ahead first. I mean. So, um. So, you haven't had too much experience mountain biking there? No. Have you seen? Richard was telling me that you guys have been on a mountain bike. Yeah, I've been on a mountain bike, but have you seen the mountains here? Have you seen it here?
No. It's funny that they do say, even, um, I've got family here and they say, Oh, but we've got some cool mountain biking trails up the road. And I'm like, mountain biking? Yeah. I mean, we've got trails with some booms, but a jump like, I'm like, for me, hopping onto the pavement is a thing. And now I'm going to do a cross trial on in the mountains with like a thousand meters up and down.
Yeah, exactly. Um, and I'm borrowed a mountain bike from someone because I only had a hard tail, you know. I have a full suspension, but that one is in South Africa, um, which hasn't been used too much because focusing on the Olympics. So in other words, we're just kind of seeing what, what we enjoy doing now.
Um, same after the Olympics where I thought, okay, I'm going to be done, uh, changed my mind. So. Who knows? Um, yeah, we're working on the farm, uh, which, uh, is a monument. And if you don't want to spend years on, um, building, renovating and stuff like that, do not buy a monument. No, it's really cool, but my goodness, um, it's a lot of work as well.
And, um, family, yeah, we definitely want a family one day. Um, but also that we don't have like a time of when things have to happen. Uh, so we'll see a little bit where, Yeah, what happens in the next couple of years. Cool, it's going to be exciting. I hope Richard said something similar to that. If not, we've got to talk.
He was like, totally opposite. He's like, well, this, that month, and that month, and then we have to So, yeah. That's, uh, fucking cool. It's going to be exciting. I mean, it's somehow, I find, you know, making this transition also away from professional racing, it's also, it's scary, but it's also super exciting at the same time.
You've lived this life now for the last decade or more, and suddenly now it's sort of everything is, everything but a lot is changing and, um. It is, yeah. But I think, yeah, it's also, it's a new challenge, you know? Yeah true. Like BASICSTERRA. Well, absolutely, but that's the thing, I've been doing this Exact same triathlon, literally, year after year after year.
There's this one triathlon we do every single year, which is in Germany. And it's awesome, but you know exactly how next year's gonna look like, and the year after, and the year after, and the year after. Sometimes it's also like, I do not want to quit triathlon. I mean, I love sports way too much to Quit. Um, but I'm, I am looking of like, is there another discipline I would like to do?
And even if that's just for a couple of months to just decide, okay, which direction we wanna go, who knows? Like, that's when people said, again, they interviewed me and, um, they're like, are you gonna go for a Fifth Olympics ? And at that moment, after the Olympics, I was like, oh, no, but, but I also say never say never.
Yeah. Because you, you do not, sometimes you do not know. What you want to do, you need some time. Yeah, so there's a there's a question that I want to ask all the guests on this podcast and that is what does success mean to you and Also, what do you think has been the biggest factor that's led to your success as an athlete and got you to this point?
I think growing as a person, so it's kind of what we spoke about earlier, that not only the results make your career successful, but also what you have reached. If you could have helped other people or influenced other people to be a better version of themselves or dare to do sports or, yeah, more than just, okay, hang up the medal and the next one and the next one, I hope to.
be able to influence other people in a positive way. So that would be my, yeah, I think then you're successful if, because we only, well, I guess we only live once. And isn't it nice then to say, okay, well, you've, you've influenced other people's lives instead of just. like rushed through life and just by yourself.
I don't know. It's nice to have some connections here and there and help other people. It's cool. It's interesting. Richard said something quite similar. Oh yeah. We're married. So you can see you guys thinking on similar things. And we did not speak because I mean, I was somewhere else. That's why I thought it was cool.
It's better. Yeah. It's better not to know what you're going to ask because otherwise you're going to think about it. Yeah. You want to give that perfect answer. Sometimes it's not about doing the perfect thing. Yeah. And, and so for you through your career, what do you, I mean, has there been anything where that character trait or, or support system or whatever, what do you think is sort of, because I mean, a lot of people try to be.
Successful whether it's in business or sport or whatever and many people fail Yeah, and uh, I mean, what do you think has been the fact that's led to you getting to this point? Well, of course it starts with a family who's willing to support you because I mean my parents are both doctors My sister studied university my brother like so I'm the one who ended up racing like around the world in my swim costume.
I mean, at the start I struggle with that because they're like, Oh, you know, like could have gone to university, could have had a proper degree. Um, so that, that is also my weakest point and my strongest point is also that it's never enough, like you always want more, you always want to do better. You always want to be the best.
Um, And without that, I don't think you'll get very far. And that's a tricky thing, honestly, currently in the sports. And not everyone will be happy when I say that, that accepting it's not always fun. Yes. As I always say, like when kids start doing sports, it needs to be fun. But when, as soon as it becomes a professional sport, It's not always fun, so just accepting that most, that you're very grateful for what you're doing, but yet you always want to be the best.
Um, yeah, always wanting more. I think that's the nature of life. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But if you, if you don't have that, that, that's also okay, but then you maybe should also, yeah, realize that professional sports isn't for you. If you don't want to sometimes just hurt yourself. I mean, it is hard. It's about, I think it's, it is a, it's a hard balance because you need to always, if you want to progress, whether you in a career, in, in the corporate world, whatever you need to want to progress, but at the same time, You also, once in a while, need to sort of take a step back and look at what you've achieved and sort of find happiness, because otherwise you can also find yourself never being happy, because it's always like never enough, you know, so it's, it is difficult.
Yeah. Sometimes realize that, okay, what'd you say? Step back, thinking, you know, it's not the end of the world if But then a couple of hours later in training, you think if I don't do this, it's going to be the end. Yeah. Yeah. True. Rachel, thank you very much for doing this. Really appreciate the time both of you have given.
Um, and, uh, thanks for the dinner and a bonus. You're very welcome. Come here for podcast guys. You get, you get free dinner. It's really, it's a good deal. Next time I'll make sure I've got a little bit more time and not planned the whole day. Pool of other appointments and training. Cool, awesome. Cool.
That was iconic.