ICONS UNCOVERED with Stefan Garlicki

Fitness Comes at a Cost! Richard Murray's INSANE Triathlon Journey!

STEFAN GARLICKI Season 1 Episode 4

In this podcast episode as we sit down with professional triathlete and three-time Olympian, Richard Murray. Richard shares his incredible journey from South Africa to becoming a world-renowned triathlete, overcoming significant obstacles including a diagnosis of A-Fib. He discusses his early years, motivations, and the pivotal moments in his career that led him to success. Richard also opens up about the challenges he'd faced, the influence of his supportive family, and how he managed to navigate the demands of being a top athlete while maintaining his personal life. Tune in to hear Richard's thoughts on success, overcoming difficulties, and his future plans, including his transition from competition to coaching.

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 Richard Murray, thanks for being on the podcast. Welcome. Yeah, haven't been on too many podcasts. Normally I say no to podcasts. What was the main motivation to actually do a sport? When you go and race the first time, you're like, Oh my goodness, there's all these crazy, the best dudes in the world. And I want to take selfies with them.

And I want to like, but I'm actually competing against them. And Richard Murray is a professional triathlete. and three time Olympian. Born in South Africa, he has overcome some major adversity to make it to the highest level in the sport, including being diagnosed with AFib. From South Africa, give it up for Richard Murray.

When I was a kid, I used to go out partying and the next morning go straight to the race. Like the night before the race, I used to go, what is the hardest moment in your life? And I was like, well, I think when I thought I was going to die. What? What does success mean for you, and what do you think has been the biggest factor?

In your success and you getting to where you are now

Guys, this is a brand new podcast and the goal is to interview the most iconic figures in sport and health from around the world But I need to ask you guys a big favor to please like and subscribe Because it would make a huge difference to the size of this podcast and ultimately the bigger the podcast gets the bigger the guests Enjoy this episode.

Richard Murray. Thanks for being on the podcast. Welcome. Yeah. I haven't been on too many podcasts. Normally I say no to podcasts. Oh really? Okay. I feel very honored now. I thought, you know, I know you and I thought it would be a good chat. So no, um, no, usually I think I've done a few podcasts, but I mean, uh, nah, it's not usually my forte, but, um, now we're a bit more chilled.

So the timing was actually, uh, oh yeah, timing was good. Okay, uh, yeah, I mean you told me, uh, a little while ago that you kind of Getting ready to to stop now, uh to stop competing. I don't know if that's That's still the plan. Yeah. Well, it's not like I don't know It seems like because after the olympics there's always like you have like the post olympic depression, you know And then I think it's probably not the best time to make decisions on like too much after that So I think for the rest of the season, it's more like doing races that excite me and you know races that You That's, you know, I get something out of that really gives me something.

So I think, uh, the last, you know, the last year or so last two years has been like pretty flat out, like trying to qualify, trying to get nationality, like all the red tape, like everything was, you know, quite a lot. So I think it's, yeah, it's good to give it this time and just like, you know, not make decisions under like serious scenarios.

It's always good to give some time and then to see how the body and mind goes and then, you know, take it from there. Okay. And I mean, you've just. Pretty much just come back. Uh, and how's the season in general been leading up to the Olympics? Uh, you know, you've been, this is your third Olympics, right? Uh, fourth, fourth, fourth.

Fourth Olympics. Yeah. Well, I've been to four and I competed in three. 'cause the one in Tokyo I went to and then never ended up competing actually at the games. So, uh, yeah, I would say I felt like I'd been at four Olympics and competed at three. Okay. Um, yeah, so I mean, I've kind of had like the whole spectrum of like being a young kid going to the Olympics the first time being like super wild.

To being like the oldest guy in the field pretty much at the olympics Yeah, i've had like a full spectrum of like competing at the olympics, which has been quite cool. She's uh, it's uh, I mean So going back like obviously now we've jumped forward a few steps, but going back to where it all started. I mean Coming from South Africa, now we're in Netherlands, uh, I mean, where did, where did it start?

I mean, I think the first time I heard of the Murray's was when your, your brother came around, um, to, to the Andrew's place and, and he said, oh, doesn't someone want to come join me for like a quick 80k cycle? And I remember thinking at the time, I was like, a quick 80k cycle, like, is he cooked? So, uh, that was the first time I'd heard about the Murray's and then obviously later on, uh, we met, uh, So yeah, I mean, where did it, your journey start?

I think the passion pretty much started when I was a kid already, like growing up in a farm, uh, outside of Durbanville, like Western Cape, South Africa. And, um, yeah, pretty much being outdoorsy, active. My dad was super like active as well. Uh, he did a lot of motocross, enduros, that type of stuff. So we actually grew up like doing Like a whole broad spectrum of different sports like running, mountain biking, uh, motocross stuff, enduro stuff, um, Like downhill mountain biking, all different types of things.

I think every weekend was like, what's happening this weekend? Okay, cool Let's go and do that. Um, and so I kind of grew up doing like a broad spectrum of lots of different sports. Yeah So yeah, even at school like cricket, hockey Like lots of different things. So, um, yeah, I grew up like doing multi sports pretty much as a kid already Okay, and I mean I think a lot of people would agree that triathlon is not the easiest sport, uh, for multitude of reasons, but I mean, like what sort of what was the main motivation to actually do a sport that you told me at some point that The best races you have when or when you black out over the finish line I think you know, I think the the reason why I started to do triathlon was that somebody literally told me So I was good at running and cycling and i'm like cool good at running and cycling.

Let's try duathlon You So it's like a real minority sport. It's like even smaller than triathlon. A lot of people probably haven't even heard of it. They're like, what is duathlon? But you were world champ, right? When I was a junior. Yeah. So when I was 16, 17, like I became, uh, well, when I was 17, I won the first junior world title, like in duathlon.

Um, and it was against some of the guys that were racing triathlon back then already, and they were doing duathlon. Um, and yeah, from then, then the following year I became two times like duathlon world champion and I was like, Oh, you know what now? And. Um, they're like, Oh, well, Jacqueline's kind of a dead sport.

Like you've come into something that's literally, you know, they have the world champs and that's the highest point of the sport. And there's no like series and there's no mass sponsors really didn't care. And so I was like, Oh, well, you know, this is something I'm good at, but not necessarily something I can like make a living off.

Um, and, uh, there was actually a guy who has a guest house in Somerset West. Uh, German guy and he said, yeah, if you learn to swim, you can become a pro in triathlon. And I was like, oh, swimming, that's not my thing. Like that's rubbish. I don't want to swim. And I really like hated swimming. And I kind of like, that for me was like the massive hurdle.

Like to try and become a good enough swimmer so that I could earn and make a living doing the sport of triathlon. Um, and, uh, yeah, first I was like saying, I'll never do it. And then like three years later, I'm like, oh, okay. I want to go to the Olympics for triathlon. Um, and so it all like really. You know, fast forwarded super quickly and then.

Uh, yeah, in two thousand and, when was it, two thousand and ten, like I decided to try and go pro as a triathlete. Uh, and I was like, okay, I have to go to altitude now because all the pros are being at altitude. So. Yeah. Like, packed up my Golf 4 and drove to Potterstrom like, became a resident of Potterstrom more or less.

Just living their training and, um, yeah, that was like the humble beginning, I guess. And, I think my dad gave me like two years to. Earn a living doing triathlon. I thought okay, this is a big challenge. Um to try and like how old are you at the time? 22 21, okay So not like you weren't I mean you were young but yeah, not That as long as you could have been at that point to switch sports.

Yeah Yeah, I think so when I changed overall from the swimming side of things It was like, okay, you started swimming when I was like 17 18. Yeah, which most people think is like 20 I don't know, they say way too old. Like most people start when they're kids. Yeah, when they're like eight, nine years old. So wait, you never learned to swim as a kid?

Not really. No, I mean, I could swim. Like I could, I could, I could stay above the water, you know, I could not, not drown, but I wouldn't technically call it swimming. Yeah, I could stay above water. Um, and no, I think. Like then I think when I was I was probably like four minutes off the pace on swimming already like when I started so I was like miles out and so I knew it was going to be like the biggest challenge for me to like to swim because I knew my running and biking was at the at par or up with some of the best guys in the world so I knew that if I got there the chance of doing well was high.

Um, I mean, not blowing my own horn, but it's like, I dunno, if you know that, that, that end of it's there, you just got to figure out the rest. Then for me, that was like the initial process of like, okay, I can do this, but yeah, it's going to be super hard because someone told me, yeah, it's going to take five years for me to get my swimming up to scratch, which I was like, well, that's, that's like going for a degree or like a master's or whatever.

So, okay, well, maybe this is my master's that I've got to, Hand off in five years and had to go through like all different coaches and different environments of swimming and trying to figure out what would actually really bring me up from, uh, you know, where I was to where I wanted to be. Um, and so I think that was like the initial challenge because I think you have to have like a challenge where you think like, can I actually do that?

Like, is this achievable? Yeah. Uh, and I think when you set that goal for yourself, like, is this achievable, then. You know, you need to put the steps in place to get there. Yeah So I think that that's like the whole mentality with was with a lot of things in life if you always think it's a bit Scary to do it.

It's probably a good idea. Yeah, so Yeah, scary moments like, you know, they yield strong people and I think yeah, that's one thing where yeah I mean I thought it was quite fun and something completely different and I wanted to actually get into like pro mountain biking and I was like Good, but I wasn't Like with the best and I thought, Oh, if I'm not the best in the country, like overseas, I'm going to be nowhere.

Luckily I had seen what, you know, triathlon was like, I went overseas a few times when I was a junior and I like realized, wow, like you can be the best in the country, but overseas there's like a hundred, a hundred dogs out there that will just eat you up. And I think that that's when I saw that already, I thought, wow, okay, there's a lot of work that needs to be done.

Um, when, when was the point, or was there a point where you really, Um, I mean, obviously as a kid, you know, you did a lot of different sports to, for fun, um, and you want to do well, but when was the point where you sort of, it really started to cross your mind that maybe this could actually be a career? Wow.

I think it probably took about two years. I mean, I think when you're a young kid, you don't really think past, you know, tomorrow it's true. Like, where am I going to get groceries from? How do I get there? You know, I think as a kid, you don't overthink it too much, which sometimes is in one sense, good, because a lot of the time you can overthink yourself so hard that you actually don't even end up putting your foot in the door.

Um, and giving it a shot. So I think it probably took about two years, I think when, yeah, I started getting on the podium within the second season of racing, like, uh, the highest level races in 2020 or 2021. Mm-Hmm, , uh, sorry, 2012, not 21. That was like three years ago. Uh, 2012. Yeah. Uh, yeah, that year I got on like three podiums in the World Series and it was like.

Massive prize money and I was like shit. I earned like 50k like this is crazy. You know, I was like wow This is as like a 20 year old. I feel like Yeah, now I can buy buy expensive buy rolexes and throw it. I'm not that character. But no, I think that was kind of way um Yeah, we've kind of started and then the end of that year then I signed with like some big companies like red bull Like specialized bmc kind of like that was what I was going to ask you about red bull like yeah What year was that?

Did you sign with them? 23? 2013 okay, because when I started with like yeah a couple of big companies with like yeah with red bull specialized with and that must be With a couple of yeah, I would assume that that's sort of like the point where you're like, okay i'm here now I think 2013 But I think the one the first year you have like the initial coming in here and then you get like seen Oh, you know You can be like with the best guys in the world.

Yeah. And then I think from that moment, then that's, you know, then some people start knocking on the door and then you go to like, okay, well, see, you know, is that now like, is that going to work or not? Um, and I even had like one company like right before the Olympics, like come knock on the door, like a couple, a couple of weeks out.

And I was just like, no, cause I'd asked him before and they were literally like, No, no, no, we don't need you. We have a whole bunch of guys. And then literally like five weeks before like, Hey, you know, do you want to come on board? And I was like, give me a phone call at the end of the year. We can talk. But it was, I think, you know, it was always like, yeah, I mean, quite a crazy moment.

And I think, you know, those moments probably never forget. Like it's, it's the moment of like, okay, you know, I've actually. You know, I belong here. Cause I think when you go and race the first time you're like, Oh my goodness, there's all these crazy, the best dudes in the world. And I want to take selfies with them.

And I want to like, but I'm actually competing against them. And I think that there's like, it's a bit of this imposter syndrome. It is like, and then eventually after a while, you're like starting to shoulder with these guys and you're like, Oh, actually, I might take you on. Just get out of my way. I think it changes very quickly with the type of thing, but I think one thing in the sport, at least triathlon, it's like, I don't know, it's quite inclusive.

Like everyone is. You know, kind of friendly with each other. And it's very like, I mean, it's, it's a smaller sport. So, um, it's not, you know, I mean, it's growing now still as well, especially with the long course stuff and like the T 100, like the longer distance stuff. It's like, it's definitely growing. Like if you look back like 20 years, if you said you'd be a professional triathlete, people think you're insane.

Yeah, I get thinking well, I think my gran and other people like I think people still do that now They're like, are you still like running around in lycra on television? They were like, aren't you gonna get a real job like Stop living with your parents, you know But I think like the sport like well the internet and and and marketing and and social media and stuff has really like allowed sports To blossom.

Yeah, whereas before it was, you know, you might be in the newspaper or someone might have heard of you You But it was very low key like very, very small. So I think the internet and those things has its, has its, uh, it has its positives and negatives. Definitely. Yeah. I think, I mean, it's been, I mean, for me, and I've seen how it's changed the landscape of sport has changed a lot in the last 10 years, you know, since the introduction of social media.

And on the one hand it's, It's given people opportunities, but it's also created this whole other side and stress and more work and, you know, before people just focused on the job at hand, competing and training. And now there's this whole other world of, you know, creating content and you always got to be on all the time and often you're signing contracts and in your contract it's like, okay, how many posts are you doing?

And this is, and it's like, you know, I'm actually supposed to be a New York Airs triathlete or downhill or whatever. I could imagine that. It must have been quite daunting, like, you know, in the beginning when you first go over to Europe and you, you mentioned that the level was so different, uh, I, I've experienced that myself.

Um, was there ever a time that, when, when was the sort of hardest moment, um, for you and was there ever a time where you thought, I can't do this or I don't want to do this. Yeah, so I think they Like there's been different moments during during my career and it like it all changed So like at the start like when I started to to race in europe I was like, okay, I have to be in europe because I can't be traveling like up and down um the travel the expense of the travel was too much like the the You know the jet lag sometimes with time zones coming backwards and forwards south africa Um, that was all too much.

So the one big thing, I think having to spend Europe's in summer, like alone at the start was like the biggest, one of the hardest parts, because it was like, I know I need to be here because this is where all the racing is, but where am I going to be? You know? Um, and I think that was pretty much the start.

One of the hardest parts. Uh, luckily after that, I joined like international training group, because I was like, I have to join a group of people because on my own, it's, you know, it's pretty, pretty, pretty boring number one, and then also super lonely. So. I think to find that group that I trained with so I trained with Joel Filio and there was a whole bunch of international guys and I was like okay well if we want to be the best I've got to train with a group the guys that are you know motivated every day there's no uh ifs or buts if we're gonna train they get the work done day in day out um and we trained with that group for like pretty much about five, six years.

Um, which was, you know, kind of, uh, you know, the sweet spot of my career more or less, which is actually great because I think from 2013, 2017, um, in that range of about five, six years, that was like the best part of my career. Um, and yeah, I think that was a pretty tough part. And then I think obviously then after that was making decision then to be more in one place because it's like you travel everywhere and now you actually don't want to travel everywhere anymore.

You actually want to be in one place. And I think You always have this push and pull of like, where do I really want to be? Um, and during this time and obviously spending a lot of time overseas, um, also that question of like where home is like, you know, where, and you're like, Oh, wherever my suitcases or wherever my bike is.

And you have that feeling of like, okay, you actually get stuck getting a little bit confused where home is, but it starts becoming everywhere and it starts becoming, you know, your life and your life changes. So I think that is probably the toughest part, like spending time away from family, friends, South Africa.

Those like became a tough part of the sport and I think that's you know One thing that's probably not spoken about too much because a lot of people in Europe you can be at home Which makes it easier, but if you're from like, you know, America, New Zealand, South Africa, you know, it's very far to come to Europe Yeah, I recognize that as well.

I mean just the the Europeans and they can go home between every race and I think people don't realize how much of an effect that has on On your mental health and everything, just seeing friends, seeing family, being in your like safe space. Um, and for everyone else, especially South Africans, Australians, anyone you've got to come over and yeah, you're living out of a suitcase for six months and, uh, on your own.

And, uh, I think it's a, it's interesting that, yeah, how there's you guys are still able to succeed, you know, um, even coming from that situation and not having the comforts of home, but maybe that, gives you more, I don't know, more drive, motivation to make it work because you're sort of in this must situation, right?

You mentioned that, uh, your best years you feel was sort of that 2013 to 2017 range. Um, what would you say is, has been the best sort of moment? I'm sure there'd been a few, I know that you were, uh, you were fourth at the Olympics, right? Yeah. And what would you say is the best moment that you've had? Yeah, I'm quite fortunate to have some good moments because I noticed out of the career you have about like three years that end up being like.

Injury, illness, sickness. So you have like probably like 20 percent of your year of, of your actual pro career, you're going to have tough times. And then you have some amazing times which come in between the bad times as well. So I think, you know, getting on the podium when I started my career in 2012, Um, like that was one of the biggest moments.

It was like, shit, you know, I'm here. I'm like starting to like, you know, knock on the door being like one of the best. And that was like a real special moment. Um, and then qualifying for like my first Olympics. Like, I didn't even know how to qualify for the Olympics. It's funny. And like, I get like two months before like, Hey, you're going to the Olympics.

I'm like, what? I didn't even know how you qualify. Like, okay, that's cool. And so like, I think those types of things, like we're, we're pretty, you know, amazing at the same time. Um, and experiences from those, like the biggest part of it, like I realized now is the experience that they, that they, that I'm left with versus the actual results that I got, because I think the results are one thing is when I'm always chasing that result.

Uh, you're either like super happy or you're really upset, but when you're chasing like the, you know, the feeling and what's it's going to bring you, it feels like you walk away happier either way. Yeah. Um, and so I think like, you know, the results as well, I'd like always, I'd definitely feature better in the shorter distance triathlon.

So like the, they call them the sprint distance where it ends in a 5k run. And my swimming was always off the mark so that I would always be behind and have to chase. And on those ones, the swimming is shorter, so I'd have to chase less. And then I have a higher probability of doing better. And so I think on the short distance races I featured and I got on, on the, like a few times on the podium on those races.

And like, like once or twice on the highest step, which was like the biggest, you know, uh, achievements of my career. And then once in my career, I managed to get Olympic distance win as well in the UK and Leeds. Uh in 2000 and I think it was must have been 19 or 17 around those around there And before that I had like achilles injury and I had like Sicknesses and a whole bunch of issues for two years before that So it was almost like the biggest, you know After having the hardest times having a big win after that felt like the biggest win.

Yeah um And yeah, I think there is you know going to the olympics I noticed like most of the olympic games I wouldn't say were not in my favor really but I had like really you know You You either like, you have the, the, the fit or fucked moments in, uh, when it comes to Olympics. You're either like on fire or you're completely destroyed.

No one knows. And you rock up there and people like, Oh no, I haven't trained for weeks. I'm injured. Like, um, and so I think, you know, 2012, uh, was my first one. I think I came 17th odd. Um, and then after that, uh, it was in Rio and Rio, like I broke my collarbone four months out before the games in, in Australia.

I remember that. I was like, how am I going to get back in like three months to race the Olympics? I'm like, this is going to be a nightmare. Um, and then like 2020. Uh, but you got fourth that year. Postponed. Yeah, I got fourth that year after like two months of training. So , I mean, that must How did you feel about that?

Because I mean, that was like, I think coming fourth, everyone's like, oh, we feel for you, you know, almost there. And then like, like Henry Scum on the other side again was one place ahead of me, so I was like, oh, you know, the countryman like beat you by one place. And I was like, yeah, but. Like three months ago I was like getting surgery in my collarbone and getting, putting like 10 screws in the plate in.

So if I think back from there to like coming forth, I'm like, I would sign for that any day of the week. Yeah. So I was like super stoked with what ended up happening. And also I was almost lost out the water during like the swim and I came out and the coaches were like, almost, you could stop. Like they almost told me rather just stop.

What? Cause I was so far back. I was like one and a half, almost two minutes back out of the swim. Yeah. And then on the bike we caught up and then on the run I ran like, I think the quickest flip like 30 40 seconds on the run. Wow. And so I like, I didn't even know that I was catching up until like, that position because the run course was like that and the coach couldn't really like tell the other athlete I'm catching him or he's catching.

So I didn't know until the last 400 meters or 500 meters, that third place was like 20 seconds up the road. So it's like, and then people say, Oh, could you go harder? Or could you like, of course, you know, you always think afterwards, what could I have done? And I'll be like, honestly. I went across the line and I was like, as I like you said at the start, almost blacked out over the finishing line.

And then I think like, when you've done that, there's nothing more you can give. Yeah. So then you can never be upset with giving your all. Cause there's always going to be people that say, Oh, you could have, you could have, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there's no ifs or buts. There's only the results. And it doesn't matter who's racing.

It doesn't matter what happened to other people. No one remembers that. No one cares. And so like, I was super stoked with the fourth place and like, I don't think I've been happier with it. With a, with a result like that. And Rachel's also, Rachel also got fourth at the Olympics, so both her and I got fourth.

That's good. Which is like, that's quite great. But you know, and like four years later in Tokyo, she came forth and it was also like all the people, the same with her. And she said like she was super, super stoked. Like she beat people that she's never beaten. And so. At the end of the day, if you walk away with a result that, you know, you've done everything you can, you can only but be happy.

Yeah. No, I think it's a good way. I mean, it's a good way to look at it. Not everyone would have looked at it like that. So I think it's, you probably found a lot more enjoyment out of it. Um, I mean, it's still fourth best in the world. Like it's, uh, it's a hell of an achievement. I mean, most people don't ever get to the Olympics, nevermind.

Get right up to the top top of the field. Um, i'm sure I don't know I know that from your when you were younger that you had quite a wild side Like to like to party a bit Uh, and I don't know i'm assuming that the triathlon world doesn't sort of lend itself to to partying that much. I mean, are there any?

Was there ever like a wild after party story or something when we started the sport? It was wild Okay after every race was like a massive body really These were like, these were like the days when, when, the golden era, when like Facebook came out and stuff and, and, and I don't know, there was like, you could go and party and nobody would actually know what you did because they would just see you there and everyone would be there and it would be fun and everyone would go and party and the sport like progressed to the point that you couldn't do it anymore because your sponsors and you couldn't do it anymore because there were other races coming up and And then it literally just died.

Like it just became so the sport became so professional That you can't risk going to party because your sickness like you notice that you would get sick more yeah, you'd race and at night you'd go out until like the police brought you home and then and then You know, and then the people will be like, oh you're sick and at the end of the season you're like Man, why did I get sick so much this year?

Like I have no idea why I got sick and it could be the all those nights you spent out on the you know, yeah drinking and causing trouble um, but I think you know in hindsight like Those days were also pretty cool. Like even rachel has the same things like man It's become so dry like yeah, everyone's become so professional and they're like, oh, I can't do this I have sponsor commitments or I can't do that.

And I think you also represent A lot more than you used to you just should like Kind of represent yourself and I think the world used to be a little bit wilder a few years like years back I think we're also getting older honestly. It's all the truth So I think when you the older you get it's like you like I want to go out It's like it's a typical thing of like over 30.

You're like I want to go but I'm tired and I'd rather go to bed This is much better Netflix is calling my name. Yes. I'm like that bed sounds so much better than three four o'clock rolling in the door And no, I think the, I think it's like it has its time and place. Um, but definitely when I was, when I was a kid, I used to go out partying and the next morning go straight to the race, like the night before the race.

Like we used to go Friday night and my mates used to go back to bed and I used to go. I'm going straight to the race, like five in the morning, no, like those were like, I don't know, that was like really like a period of like 18, 20 years old. Yeah. And then after that I went to Germany and I spent some months there and I was just like, I could do without this partying like stuff.

It's nice, but it doesn't need, I mean, all my mates and everyone was like, you know, wild. You do feel a bit shit the next day. I think, and then you get sick and then you like, I don't know, they had this thing, if you just don't stop and you continue and you just go through. Like you get rid of it quicker.

So I don't know That was I think your body could handle stuff like that in your 20s Yeah, I don't know. I haven't I haven't experienced that I must say Think of the 20s that you can handle in the 30s. Uh, there's no coming back And you're going to be like in the bed for a week, but no, I think, um, I think things change as the years went on.

Um, And I mean, you learn to obviously like, you know, preserve yourself more and become more professional. So I think you realize, oh, you, you know, You try and cut out the mistakes you make and you look and you go, oh, that's a mistake and you go, okay We're eating a lot of junk food or that's also Shouldn't be doing that.

We should cut out some bad food and whatever and all that stuff and whatever Um Easy food and those things in the sauce those during the years you should you know learn from your mistakes in some way Yeah, but there's nothing saying you shouldn't once a year I think it became more like end of the season.

The season's done. Cool. We'll go and have a party. So it became more responsible, calculated partying, which I don't know. Calculated partying. Yeah. It's like calculated, but it felt like European partying. Cause it'd be like, okay, we're going to schedule this party for 21st of November because the season's finished.

And, uh, yeah. We're going to leave at this time and we're going to come home at this time. We're going to come home at that time. And this is the taxi is the number for the taxi. Everything is booked and planned in advance. Everything is organized. And you've got to put your money in so everyone can put their money together into the pot.

Um, I think it's uh, I suppose it's just part of life right here. Yeah, so I, I've noticed pretty, pretty much exactly the same thing in the downhill world. Um, I mean it was a little bit also before my time but that was a huge part of it. That's the sort of image they presented was this wild bunch of hooligans that sent it down the hill and then had a big party afterwards and they didn't train and da da da.

And nowadays it's, I mean there are some times after parties but it's very, very low key like this really. Not that whole side of it is kind of died and I think you know, it's just like triathlons This professionalism has come through and you know, sports are growing and I guess it's a good thing But so even so even greg is not like partying.

I mean, yeah He's an exception. I will say he is an exception. Um, I I actually I filmed with him earlier this year and I mean Like people always told me that he's a wild and he drinks and this and that and I was just like, you know It can't, it can't be real. Like he's four time world champion. He's won all these races.

Like it can't be, you can't perform at that level. Let me tell you it is real. It is real. I experienced it. It's hectic. Like he is an animal, uh, and you can go out and he's like out potting till late. And then the next day, he's four o'clock in the morning. He's on the road bike, like still hung over. And yeah, so I don't know.

I can't do it. So yeah, he's well trained. I think he's not just the guy. He's not just the goat, but he's like the goat guy. He's the last of the era. The last of the guy. Yeah. Um, on the similar topic, partying, getting wild. I thought it was a good time to bring up, uh, what's your thoughts? I mean, you see, I'm, I'm, you Onifans.

A little bit of a controversial topic. What's your opinion on, About them coming into sport, um, because I don't know if you know, we had some issues, um, last year, like the UCI, uh, were not, uh, they didn't want anyone to compete with an OnlyFans logo on, um, because in their rules or whatever, there, there's anything that can be related to adult content or something like that, um, so we had to, you know, It was a jumping through a few hoops.

Um, but, uh, yeah, I'd be interested to hear what, uh, yeah, what your take on it is. And, uh, yeah, well, I think there's a lot of, I mean I suppose there's a lot of different companies that sponsor, uh, sporting events and things and stuff. And I don't think that every company gets like assessed, you know, it's not, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with only fans, but like I'm saying with like, say even with certain with oil companies or with like, you know, gas companies or like Cigarette companies alcohol companies all those types of things like those things are fine.

Like, you know, that's perfectly fine So it should be an open field, I guess. Yeah Theoretically, and I think obviously like a lot of people probably don't doesn't know that like OnlyFans does have like a cultural and like Slightly different side of it as well. Yeah, so I think that that's probably a good point Way to look at it.

Um, I think everyone probably expects you to get naked though. And I mean Which is pretty you know, I mean that's pretty unique, but I think that that's uh, yeah, I suppose Companies then try to get that brand out there um, and then obviously work together with athletes and stuff and things which makes complete sense because it's a different type of uh, you know access that they're actually accessing through athletes versus Uh, just doing it themselves.

So no, I think it's it should be it should be it should be free within reason I guess um Or it could even be like a certain Uh part of it, which they have a slightly not a different logo, but a different, you know Actual titling of things and stuff so people know that it's actually related to that Um, like that only fans cultural thing or only fans, whatever and then people go.

Oh, no No, that's it's like an education thing, I guess I think it's, I mean, like when you think back, I mean, you were, you were sponsored by Red Bull when Red Bull first sort of came into sport back, I don't know when it was early 2000s, maybe, um, it was not sort of freely accepted. A lot of people were against it because they're like, Oh, this is, you're pushing, you know, energy drinks unhealthy, pushing this on kids and stuff like that.

And now it's sort of evolved into this iconic thing to be, you know. Sponsored to be a Red Bull athlete, you know, um, so I think maybe that's also a sort of similar thing You know when something's very new and different. Yeah Some people love it and some people don't. And, um, but I think for smaller, especially for smaller sports, uh, where, you know, it's not football, uh, it's not, uh, rugby or whatever.

I think it's only good when you've got more brands bringing in money in, into the sports and, and supporting the athletes. Um, because it's hard, you know, it's hard, hard enough as it is. Um, I think there are like probably certain ethical things that you probably like, I don't know. You wouldn't want to get involved with certain things, I guess in there.

I know there's some certain things where I looked and I'm like, Oh, I would rather not. But I think all within reason, it's all like a personal thing as well and a personal choice more or less. But, um, I think most people, when they work for a company, I mean, as a, you know, somebody who's daily job, they won't think like, do I believe, like this brand that I'm working for, Do I believe a hundred percent or do I need to pay the bills?

Yeah. Like what, what is the difference? There's no difference. Like it's the same thing. And I mean, obviously as an athlete, you're influencing people. Um, so you're connecting with those brands and stuff. Um, but you know, working for a company is pretty much identically the same thing. That's a good way to look at it and I think I mean the world is so open minded now I mean, it's the 21st century, you know things of like I If you look at what's on other social media also Instagram on Twitter or X now what it's called It's I don't think there's you can see anything anytime you want.

So yeah It comes down to preference. It comes down to what you're looking for in your preferences exactly in life. I think Um, yeah, I think as an athlete, you've obviously got to be smart to make sure that you have endorsements and you have people that are backing you. And, um, from a professional side of that, that's, you know, that drives the sport.

If they weren't sponsors, people sponsoring sport, athletes would need to get a job. So a lot of smaller sports and things, you have to have run a job by that as well, which means you can't really be all you want to be. So that was the one thing I also noticed, like you need to weigh up, like, okay, well, how am I going to structure my yearly.

Uh, income like where is it all going to come from like is it going to come from prize money? Is it going to come from sponsors? Uh, you know, is it going to come from charity stuff? How am I going to like work out the whole year? Uh, and you've got to have, you know, sponsors and people backing you, uh, in order for you to have like a little bit of, okay, I feel okay cause I have some backing and now I need to work hard to get the rest.

Um, so it's definitely important to have sponsors and they've obviously people looking after you. And, uh, yeah, it's, uh, also, you know, not just sports then it's also more marketing and getting involved with companies. You, you learn a lot of things, which is also good for the longterm. So. Speaking of people looking after you, uh, how, when, when exactly did you meet Rachel and, uh, um, how did, yeah, how did that sort of come about?

Yeah. So I actually met Rachel in 2013 for the first time, um, in Bloberg actually of all places, uh, in, uh, in the Western Cape. And, uh, yeah, there happened to be a actually met her on Facebook first because Facebook was a thing then it sounded, that was like. Facebook messenger was a thing and we started chatting there and she came to do the african cup in Bloberg strand and yeah, we We both did the event there.

We both won and then we started getting to know each other there Um, and then from there she was still training with a dutch national team and I said, oh, maybe she'd come over I'm joining a international squad with joel fully on a whole bunch of other top athletes Uh, and then the end of that season and she decided to then join the same squad and then literally from there We were like living together from there Like a couple months in, uh, already, like 2013, 2013.

So within like, so that was what I guess the main decision to actually move to Netherlands specifically. Pretty much. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. And then it was like, okay, Rachel, Rachel was actually living in the south of the Netherlands with the national training center. Um, and when I, I went down there and we were both like, Oh, we're, you know, in like a 20 square meter room, the two of us with all of our stuff, bikes, everything.

Yeah. I was like, this is very cramped for two people in 20 square meters. I was like, I'm not sure we could, we could really do that with bathroom, kitchen, everything as big as this room. Maybe a half a size bigger than this room. Sure. So not massive. We were a little bit like, I'm like, I don't know if I can live in a city.

Like I feel really claustrophobic. And then she said, Oh, well, my parents got a place in the east of the country. Maybe we can move back there. And so we decided to actually move here. Um, kind of the end of 2013. Um, and yeah, we came in here and, uh, we've pretty much been, been, been living out here since 2013, um, which is about, yeah, 11 odd years.

Um, yeah. And it's been pretty good because I mean, I was definitely looking for, I was saying I was looking for somebody who was living in Europe, but, you know, I definitely knew that like having a girlfriend in South Africa all the time became an issue because I was always traveling and it always became like you know I feel bad and then the relationship would end and eventually I thought I need somebody who's doing what I'm doing for the next 10 20 years and you know hopefully then then we can then continue for the rest of our lives together and Yeah, that was literally like, okay, I needed to look at professional triathletes around there.

Which ones? Which professional triathletes? You basically looked like a catalogue. More or less. And then I looked and I thought, okay, wait, how many of these people speak English? And that like whittled down even less. Oh man. And I think, no, it was, it sounds like the most business proposal thing ever, but I kind of looked at it and thought, I need to think about this because.

Well, I mean, I met my partner on Tinder, so I mean, that's the modern age now. I guess. That's more, that's. It's kind of like, okay, well, I want to live in Europe. And like, cause when I came out, Oh, I kind of like this, like it's, you know, organized and things, things work and that's on this electricity. And you know, there's all these basic things.

And like, there's obviously a lot of things that like the weather is one thing to get used to. And like the cultures are completely different. And over the years I started to like, kind of learn how things go and how things are run and all those things. Um, yeah. And then eventually that was kind of like, okay, well, you know, this is probably where we're going to end up.

And, um, yeah. So I think that was kind of like the, how the whole process moved forwards. Um, and yeah, and then it was like, after the 2021 or 2020 Olympic games, um, yeah, I decided like, okay, well, we really want to live here in the Netherlands and it would be pretty good for me to start representing the country.

I had like Dutch coaches for the past five years before that, I was traveling with the Dutch national team everywhere. You weren't getting any support from the South African team? No, no, I was getting support. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, I was getting support and I was still traveling with the Dutch national team.

Oh, okay, okay. So I was, so my things were getting covered. So things were getting, there was a really good, you know, period of time where like pretty much all the expenses were covered over time, which was extremely good. From the, from South Africa? Yeah, from South Africa. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So it was. I mean, there were a few emails backwards and forwards, but at the end of the day, things would actually get covered.

And that was like amazing. So it was like, yeah, for about four or five years or so. Um, and then, yeah, after Tokyo, it was like, okay, well, I want to live here. I want to start a business here. Um, I want to start my life here and we had been married already for like a few years. So it was then the decision, okay, for them to then move across and start making a name for myself here as a, as a citizen, because, uh, I think in the longterm it would help a lot.

And also it feels odd to have having like living in another country or always be a foreigner, even though you're there. And like, even now that I've still got, you know, probably for the next, you know, the rest of my life. Yeah. Yeah. I will always be the South African who is now Dutch, which is, which is okay, you know, um, because I think part of your life is like, uh, you know, you pick up parts of the world and you actually take those parts with you to a certain degree if you're allowed to do that.

So, um, there will always be, I'll always be South African, but I'm also Dutch. So it's like a. You know, you can't like, it's not like, you know, I'm like a traitor because I left the country because I still love the country, but it was a more decision on my future, which I think not a lot of people would know.

Like at some races, people are like, Oh, I'm a traitor. Or like, why would I leave? Or I'm a bad boy. I've heard like lots of different things, but it was more like a, you know, a life decision than anything else, because it is like the country you represent. And it was like, I felt like I've also been helped you a lot because my coaches Dutch and.

Um, I was traveling with them. So my infrastructure was actually Dutch for about five years. Sure. Okay. Um, which, you know, they didn't charge me like a cent for doing any of that. So it's, you know, and then that's like, you know, in, in a way I'll need to then, you know, give back one day. Yeah, that regard as well.

And we want to start obviously a coaching business. So I started coaching like two years ago already So i've got a couple athletes cool that I coach and I keep track of weekly and stuff Um, and so that's like the beginning and yeah, I started coaching conditioning for sports Uh before I started as a professional triathlete And so then that's like then obviously the next step in life.

Um, that's one of the questions Which yeah is um, yeah kind of kind of the next phase I guess And when is that? I mean, are you, have you got to the point that you're officially retiring or have you, are you still? Yeah. So, so this year, I mean, we, I still competed, uh, in, in quite a couple of like the events that are needed to do to qualify for the Olympic games.

Um, and then for next year, like, I mean, I don't want to like call it a hundred percent because there's nothing worse than like saying you're retired and then you want to come. Then later you realize. Oh, wait, maybe there's a little bit of juice left, you know, you never really know. It seems to happen quite a lot.

I think that happens to, it seems like it's happened to like maybe one in like one in one every three athletes, I would guess maybe more unless you're, unless you're a female and you're getting kids, um, then it's probably more, you know, definite, but I think for like, I think for the end of the season, it's more about having some fun races, you know, having an off season, um, focusing on other things because we just bought like a, like a farm here in the Netherlands.

Um, which we've got like, we haven't announced like all the plans on that yet. So we haven't really like announced what we're doing with it yet, which a lot of people probably guessed already. But, um, that's taking a lot of energy, a lot of time. So I think, you know, realistically, like you've got to look into like how much time available, how much energy available to do everything.

Um, and so, yeah, sort of next year we're still going to keep things rolling because I think to stop is actually also not good. So it's better just to wean down from maybe like some super serious events for some time. And do some events that excites me and makes me excited because I think there was so much pressure trying to get to the olympics That you start losing the enjoyment because it's like this has to be done and that has to be done And uh the nationality stuff to to transfer to south africa to the netherlands.

Yeah costs so much energy like that Uh, you know, it was almost like is it not really worth me spending this amount of energy trying to compete At the you know at the olympics because in south africa my birth certificate was gone And that took like two years to get a new one made. Holy moly. And this was all now like since 2000 and Like 22.

Your heart surgery. Yeah, and all of that. Um, when which year did that happen? Uh, that was 2021 Okay, and yeah, yeah Maybe you can take a I mean take us through what happened and and how it's sort of the effect it's had on you as an athlete and you know, also you know You know, dealing with everything and also what's motivated you to come back, you know, to racing after that?

Yeah, so I think the yeah, that was pretty much the I think one of the toughest moments. I think my my family actually asked me like out there Like what is the hardest moment in your life? and I was like, well, I think when I thought I was gonna die because I had um, Yeah, I'd like got a heart condition 2021 in South Africa I was like swimming in the swimming pool and I've got some goggles that's got my heart rate in the goggles I could actually see like my heart rate.

Really? Yeah, and it's got pace and got everything and stuff That's insane And so you can actually keep track and see what zone you're in while you're swimming and stuff and the pace and everything And I was swimming in my heart rate was just sitting at 160 and I was warming up and I was going like why?

Is my heart rate 160? And I was like, no, that can't be right. There's gotta be something, maybe the sensor's out or whatever. It's got a Bluetooth sensor. And so I, I, I stopped and I told it, told Rachel, said something. It doesn't feel right, like my chest, like I had like this, like, almost like it was a pick, like a pick that was cramping.

Mm-Hmm. . I was like, that felt quite odd. And then I just stopped and I checked my heart rate like five minutes later and I was like, no, it's right. It's still one 60. So after five minutes of doing nothing, it just stay at one 60. Okay. And so I was like, that's a problem. And then I got like out of breath and I climbed out the pool and I was like out of breath.

And I sat on the side of the pool and I was like, this is, something's not okay. And I checked my heart rate again. And it was like 50. And I was like, Oh, something's really not okay. Yeah. So it would fluctuate between 180 and like 50 the whole time. And it was just sitting there. So it felt like racing and then nothing and racing.

And I was like went to my folks place and they checked it out with one of those like oxy meters on your finger. And then like, The heartbeat was like this a whole bunch of times and it was like a second or two of nothing and then it was like massive bunch of beats and nothing and we checked with a Literally phone up a cardiologist like this is the thing and he said okay come and see us like in an hour or two Uh, we went over there and then they said yeah They diagnosed me then with like a fibs, which is like atrial fibrillation or like kind of abnormal heart rhythm um, and literally what happened was like In the chambers of the heart, like over the years, you start creating signals like a node inside the heart.

So setting signals incorrectly inside the chambers of the heart. And this actually puts the heart like out of rhythm or this. Um, and the thing is it doesn't know actually when to beat anymore. So you're literally fighting itself. And what's the cause of that? Or did they know? So they don't really know, but it can be like a condition, like apparently one in six Olympic athletes or one in eight Olympic athletes get it.

So it's more or less just from, um, Racing super hard for a super long period of time and then eventually you get it So they say normally people get it when they're 50 Uh generally like if people are endurance athletes and they've done it long enough they get it when they're 50 but Um, some athletes can get it like when they're 20 or 25, so it depends on like, that's a very, it's not like, I mean, trying to look into it a lot of, uh, there's not much research on it, uh, really, but, um, yeah, there's quite a few athletes get it and now I've had like hundreds and hundreds of messages of people asking me that the same issue and the same thing and it's like, everyone's very unique and it's different and specific to each person, I guess.

Um, but yeah, I had literally that in, in, in the start of the year and I got literally told to stop sports, like get a normal job. Wow. Like your career's finished like 2021. So, um, and that was like in South Africa and I was like completely distraught 'cause like, okay, my career's finished like 32, like hectic.

Now I need to go and get a job. Like what am I gonna do? Yeah. And so like I went home and this was now the year of the Olympics, 2021 of Tokyo. Uh, and I'm like, okay, well, my Olympics is pretty much finished. Uh, that's done. Um, and, uh, this was like once it had already been postponed. So COVID and stuff and things like that was like still pretty fresh and everyone thought it was from COVID and stuff and things like that, which I'd never had COVID before.

Um, and so, yeah, pretty much from then I was like, I don't know what I need to do. I need to take, I need to take a break. They said I need to like detrain my heart. So pretty much get unfit. Um, and wow. Okay. Like I didn't know that was the thing from the fitness, the fitter you become, the higher the chance of it happening sometimes.

So your heart grows in your chest to the point. Some people the heart so big that the signals start getting sent wrong. Um, and black liver, my case, it wasn't. That my heart was too big. It was just that the signals were getting sent wrong. Um, and I had to go medication, like blood thinning stuff for like a few months, um, to make sure I didn't get like a blood clot because the problem is from the irregular heartbeat, you can actually have like a blood clots and then you can have a stroke from that.

So, and, or you could have a cardiac arrest and die. So there's like pretty serious, scary stuff. Yeah. I was, didn't know what I was going to do. I was in South Africa then just in my place. And I was like, You know, mentally pretty, uh, destroyed. Um, and I've just had to figure out what I was going to do. And I was like, well, if I can get back to some training and we had, I had one of those, uh, let's like measures reads your heart over like two weeks.

Um, so I had that and they checked and there was nothing irregular. Um, and then like three months, like, cause I hadn't had any episodes, but then literally, Uh, it went back to normal and I went back into normal rhythm, which was cool. And the body started to like chill out and relax, which is good. Um, then I thought I was good enough to go to altitude after that, um, because the team was in Namibia, so I thought, okay, let's go to Namibia.

Went there, joined them for some training, and then I had like another episode of like heart issue again there at Altitude. Um, we had to go back onto like blood thinners and back onto medication, and I was pretty scary there, um. And then eventually coming through to Europe, uh, I had to like, you know, see what could be done.

It was like four or five months out from Olympic Games. Um, like I qualified so I could go to the Olympics. Um, the stress was all from that, but, um, I had to figure out and I couldn't train like do any high intensity without having a hot issue again. So it was like quite, quite difficult thing to deal with.

And, uh, eventually we decided like it kept coming back. I had to go and have an ablation. So they're like, Go into the heart and they kind of freeze the parts where the signal is getting sent wrong. Um, And then like it creates scar tissue within the heart pretty much and then it's the the heart can then settle into a new rhythm Over time and so from that then I had that done and then literally like three months later It was the olympics in tokyo and I was like, okay.

Well i'm gonna go but I don't know if I can rest individual because I'm like two hours off having like, you know, having this, they call it a procedure. It's not surgery. It's like a day procedure. You go in the next day, you're at the hospital. So it's not like it's a heart surgery or anything. Um, and a lot of people get it done.

And yeah, I literally had that done. And like, um, by three months later it was the Olympics. I went to the Olympics and then I was like, I'm not doing the individual cause it's two hours. It's too much. I don't trust my body and my heart to, to put myself through that. Right. So close after having the procedure done.

So I went there literally only for the relay in my mind. I thought, well, you know, if I go for the relay, at least the, you know, South African team then would have a relay team and they won't need to forfeit the team because we had no reserves. Yeah. Um, so I went there and, uh, the other athletes, Henry Schoeman had like Achilles injury, uh, which we didn't really know about and stuff.

Uh, and we got there and then they were literally, it was like, I know in the individual races, he had like, he had to pull out during the run. His Achilles was completely destroyed. And they said, sorry, there's no team. Guys have to leave. You have to go home in two days. Uh, there's no relay. And I was like, my mental state went from like, from being like, trying to be positive, trying to be mentally okay.

It's like, okay. And I'm completely crushed. Olympics is over. Um, go back to South Africa. And uh, yeah, I don't know. The mind was just like, what next? You know, what am I going to do? I like so much anger, so much frustration, couldn't do anything about it. And, and yeah, I think from that moment it was like, okay, well, you know, I think I should move into a different environment.

I think I should try something different because. Like psychologically, I needed a break from all the craziness that had happened at the start of the year. Uh, and, uh, I started doing commentary, like stuff then I was still doing some YouTube stuff inside here and there. And, uh, I was just trying to like, find out, not find out what the next step in life was, but, Um, yeah, just, you know, trying to figure things out because I think there's like, there's moments in the career where you actually don't know what you want to do.

Yeah. And you need to give yourself some time, just kind of thinking of what do I really want, what do I want to do next? And then I was like, okay, well maybe I can try to go for the relay in Tokyo, not in Tokyo, in Paris. So then the goal is like, okay, cool. Let's try and see, like individual, I'm like, I don't think I could qualify any more individually.

Just because of my heart and because of things but I was like maybe if I could switch over to the Netherlands and race for rate with Rachel in the Olympic Games that would be quite special like yeah first husband and wife racing in a relay and triathlon ever that's cool pretty like pretty special um like in the village like I thought that would be like a very cool thing to get to go and do and Like four years later that actually ended up happening.

So it's like, you know, I think there's like, there's all those small little bits and pieces and then it's like the individual race. Like I knew that I wouldn't be where I needed to. And literally then like this year in Paris, like three weeks out, like I cracked a rib, like in training. How? Just from like, like literally the cartilage, like a foam rolled something because something was so tight on my shoulder and then it cracked like between the cup, the, the cartilage.

Literally, the cartilage in the rib had like cracked, like three weeks out from the Games. I'm like, it seems like the Olympics is a plague for me because every time the Olympics comes, something breaks. Um, but yeah, and I was like, Oh fuck, this is a nightmare. And so I think that is like, okay, well, you know, it seems like there's always these hurdles you've got to get over and it's like, they're always going to be there.

And you've almost got to just make the most you can with a situation sometimes. And I think you probably know that all too well, like having like hip surgeries and having so many crashes. And I think that's, yeah, that's like, it's part of the sport and it kind of teaches you the biggest lessons. Of the sport is that the hard times teach you way more than the good times.

Yeah, it's a hundred percent and as much as Injuries and you know things are really hard to deal with at the time. I think it makes you into a much stronger person Afterwards, you know once you get through that and gives you the confidence that okay That was like look at how I didn't know how I was gonna do that and now I got through it and you get to the Other side and I think for everything else that life's gonna throw at you You It helps so much and also shows you what's important in life.

Like I'm, I don't know how you felt, but I know for me when I got injured after racing was kind of everything. And then suddenly you, you think, you know, you're not thinking about winning a race or something. You're just thinking about doing, having a healthy life and doing everyday things. And that's like, you don't care about anything else.

And you know, you ha your health needs to come first. Um, and I think that also. more enjoyment. Um, for when you've kind of got that perspective, I think it also gives you more enjoyment because I think as a, as an athlete in any sport, it can be really difficult to, to deal with things when things don't go well, you feel like your whole world is falling apart because it's like, okay, I'm this, I'm, Richard Murray, the professional athlete, and now I haven't, my results haven't been good, or I've gotten injured, or I can't do this or that.

And then you think, okay, what am I now, uh, without my sport? Yeah, yeah. Um, and I think learning it, for me at least, it helped so much to, it's hard, but to deal with that and come out on the other side and go, okay, you know, I, you're, I'm Stefan Golicki, I'm a, The person comes before the sport and I think that's, you know, it sounds like you've, you've sort of, uh, also kind of come to terms with that and, uh, yeah, going forward, uh, into the next, next phase.

Yeah, I think the, I think that's, uh, I want to say maybe a part of, part of life that, When you're young, you're hungry. You want to win when you get a bit older, you start realizing like results isn't everything experience becomes more. And then when you get like near the end of your career, you'd be like, I want to enjoy myself.

Like I want to be healthy. I want to enjoy myself. And like, so I think it, it probably changes during your career. And I think that's what makes like a career, you know, so special. And there's obviously going to be a point where it ends, you know, so. It's not like, you know, the magical grail and then it's like, okay, then what's the next part?

Like, okay, well, you're a Thai and you've got another like 50 years to live or 40 years if you're lucky. Like, what are you going to do with the next 40 years, you know? And I think that that puts things into like the big perspective. And it's like when you look and you go, okay, well, do I have like a roof over my head?

Like, yeah. Okay, do I have like clothes on my back? Like, yeah. You have food and be like, you're actually very lucky because like a lot of people in the world don't have all of that. Yeah, so I think you can always go back to the basics like the you know The essentials of life and if you have those essentials, you're actually fine.

And if Things don't work out tomorrow. That's also fine. So I think it's to have a look on the, like the long, you know, in the long term, like there's always these little bits and pieces. They're going to suck. It's just part of life. And it's like, how you enjoy the sucky parts because the sucky parts actually end up being the best parts.

And I think at those moments, okay, they do really suck. Yes. And you're really upset and you're angry and you hate life. And that's perfectly normal. Um, and I think it's, Yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a, it was what makes life exciting and what makes it worth living. A hundred percent. Um, I think that's a good, good mindset to have.

I can see that, you know, you, you get a different answer when you ask someone that at, you know, 20 or something, you know, yeah, I suppose it's a very different, uh, yeah, I think the age is definitely like early twenties and mid fifties is like a, is a, is a different thing. Um, it's funny listening to you. I hear so many similarities to To my thinking process over the last few years as well.

Um, so it's interesting, completely different sports, but I think mindsets across sport are quite similar in a lot of ways. Um, I, uh, I was wondering that like with the heart thing, um, obviously very scary, serious situation, and there is. Is there a risk that it happens again? I mean, what was your, I guess, main motivation to come back after that, even knowing the potential risks?

Yeah. So I think, um, the one big thing was that, uh, like, A lot of people have had it before. So at the start I think, okay, I have something unique. I'm, you know, it's only me, you know, it's the end of my life. And there were like moments during the night where I'd wake up and my heart was beating like completely regularly I thought like I was gonna die like that happened a few times Scary and like I woke up and woke Rachel up and I was like fuck.

I think something like It's not okay here And then it was like a lot of the time I would realize there was a lot of stress related things causing my heart palpitations and my and my You know life just being so busy that You I've actually caused my own problems. So it's like a I had to literally almost teach myself Okay, like I need to be you can't be in control of everything You can only control so many things in your life and some things you can't control Don't try not to control them because you can't control everything and the problem is I think it seems like you always Look like you're in control, but actually you're not You're actually not in control of anything like we control, you know what we do every day and we try to control all these things but Those stress and those things was probably causing the issues to a certain degree and like I'm very like Linear when it comes to like thinking, okay, here's a problem.

How do I fix the problem and like I try and eliminate some things Sometimes overthink the elimination of certain things, but I just tried to look at it at the whole and go Okay, what can I remove? How can I try to change things so that my unhealthy? I'm enjoying my life And I think that perspective changed a lot after my heart problem since it started.

And like, it probably will come back again. Like it's not like it's gone. So once you get it, it's lifelong thing. So I'm going to have it when I'm 40, I'm going to have it when I'm 50. Um, and so like I need to then obviously be smart about that and, uh, yeah, treat myself like, as I've told some other people, treat yourself with respect, like be kind to yourself, be nice to yourself, try and like, you know, have moments in the day where you sit and do nothing.

Like people don't have that nowadays like it's just go go go go Until you burn out and then you realize oh wait, I need to stop doing that because otherwise I burn out again Okay, that's a great idea. Let's probably Probably implement some of that into my daily life and Yeah, I think there's so many like even now like after we've like just bought a property and like down the line we want to get kids and I'm like wow this is scary like maybe kids maybe have a house maybe try and renovate house at the same time maybe you know start a business at the same time all of us all on top of each other I'm like oh that sounds like a recipe for disaster but yeah I think you know to just try and do everything like every day try and get something done and obviously remember to like You know, take a moment to take a breather.

It's also fine. Some days you're just like I can't do today Like today is not my day. Like i'm gonna just take a break Yeah, i'm just gonna sit back and just take today and if other people say oh you shouldn't do that I'm, like well, this is what I need to be a human being i'm gonna need this time. Yeah, and I think people are starting to respect that more than they used to I think it used to be oh, you're a soft just you know, take some cement You know Then you'll harden the hell up.

Yeah, you know, I think that's the mentality where it's like, I don't know growing up in south africa That was definitely like you're a man Men get things done Regardless of the scenario, but I think people are realizing now that you know men aren't stone men are stone They have feelings they have emotions and that's fine And and as soon as you can allow those emotions to sometimes go out then that's perfectly fine as well I think one thing i've noticed in europe people can do that You They're very open.

Some people are like, how are you feeling? And I'm like, oh, I had a shit day today, you know, and like, people will say that and people like, when you go back, when they go back to South Africa and people are going like, how are you doing? I'm fine. Someone that had one of my relatives died, but I'm fine. You know, and I think that being more open has also like made me a little bit more like, if you're angry with somebody, you tell them, bro, I'm pissed with you.

You're, you're, you're, you're an idiot. And normally you wouldn't say that. So you build up all the stress, just, you know, simulate for absolutely no reason where if you can be more open, like, I think that does make things more relaxed. And I suppose in the Netherlands, they're also like, people are super open.

So now I'm saying things that I'm like, which you can't say that, well, I'm trying to fit in here. So then I'm going to give my opinion. The Dutch are quite blunt. They quite, they say it as it is. There's no, there's no way, two ways around it. Yeah. And everyone's got their like opinion on matters and it's very interesting because also like at the farm you'll bring in there people say Oh, you should do this and you should do that and maybe you could change this and maybe you can put that there I'm like, oh really?

Okay, they're trying to help because they're giving their Advice of what could happen and i'm like, okay. Well, and and that's the cultural differences where You got a tag off like, okay, it's South African hat goes off and then Dutch hat goes on and then, you know, and it's like, uh, it's quite, I think that's from the cultural side of things has been quite like, like opening and quite nice, like, especially now we live like in the country.

So. Like everyone knows everyone's business Which in one sense you're like, okay, that could be a bit much but then in another sense you need people's help so Like now we're starting to spend more time here and we're actually like getting to know our neighbors and getting to know people and stuff which Beforehand, we would never open up to because we were so flat out going we didn't have energy To spend you know, five minutes caring about what else goes on So I think that's another new nice part of life that we will, you know, learn to know our neighbors and, you know, learn to go and borrow stuff from them.

And if they need help with doing something, we'll help them. And I think those parts of life are also like looking forward to. That's uh, yeah, it's, it's definitely a different, uh, a nice part of the culture. Yeah. But it can be a bit of a shock when you're not used to it. Yeah. I think when they heard that there was like an African, like Rachel had an African boyfriend, they were like African, is he, uh, is he, uh,

like, no, you'll see, you'll see. Trying to like put in, you know, how is he going to put in? And I think also like, I'd say obviously like to get a nationality, I was over there to do all that. The Dutch civil exams for like reading, writing, uh, also for our politics, like all the stuff I had to learn about, which took like quite some time, but it was like, uh, quite actually nice because you actually learn things about the culture and like, Oh, that's how it works.

And I, okay. That's why they do that. And, and, uh, yeah, I think there's a lot of things that people also do here together that in a lot of other countries they don't do, which is also quite nice, like looking after the elderly or. Uh, like, yeah, I heard today as well, they have a thing with like some, some elderly people where they want to go and do one last thing with their grandchildren.

They have like, you know, companies that go out and help people to do that for the last time as well for their grandchildren and things like that. So it's quite a lot of nice, enjoyable things here as well. And I think like, I find myself very fortunate to be in like both, both places. Um, yeah. Which is also like, I mean, we have a place in South Africa and I think people say I race for the Netherlands and I hate South Africa.

Not true. Like we always want to go back there and we love going back there. But like, you know, this is where we see the future so it's uh Yeah, it's nice to have both and we want to obviously like set something up in south africa where we start doing like training camps and we do things and stuff so we come back and Uh, we can show people like how awesome south africa is because whenever you tell somebody you're like from south africa Oh, that's amazing.

I went there on vacation You know and then in the netherlands, it's like oh, yeah, we went there before like amsterdam. Yeah. Yeah, and you know You It's very interesting how like different people like interact to where you come from. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's, uh, yeah, very like fortunate to come from like, well, now come from both places.

Cool, man. Um, I, uh, so I wanted to ask you something, so something that I want to ask all the guests and um, that is what does success mean for you and what do you think has been the biggest in your success and you getting to where you are now? I think, uh, kind of what I define as like success would probably be, uh, yeah, being able to do what you want to do every single day, uh, that makes you happy.

So if you can do what makes you happy, then you're successful. And I think if you can inspire others as well, and you can help other people in some way, then you're also successful. So, because I think the most successful people I find is like, People that give back, people that change people's lives. Um, you know, having a service that, that, that's detrimental to society or you're adding to society, I think that brings the most amount of success feeling wise for somebody that, that I've personally find, like, if I've done something where somebody says, Oh, I, you know, I did this because you inspired me to do that.

Like I found like that was successful. Like results are like are a part of success, but it's not the whole part Because I think people see the people standing on the podium and they go. Oh, that's super successful be like no that person worked hard To get that success. So it wasn't like he just been like, here's your success I thank you very you may enjoy the success We like know that guy probably started like with mountain biking when he was like five years old And crashed himself to pieces and did that for a whole bunch of years.

Yeah, and then he became very skilled And then became successful. Um, and I think it's, when you're doing something for other people, like the same with like Rachel's father's like a doctor and he like helps people every single day. I'm like, that must come across. You probably get used to it and it's normal, but like you mean so much for so many people that that must be, you know, quite something special to be part of.

And I think like, you know, as a triathlete, you're like worrying like about me, me, me, me, me, how can I be as good as. I can make myself and I think a lot of triathletes don't realize actually what they're actually like influencing because you get so caught up on like oh I have to do this training session no so I can't come out and do this with you guys or I can't eat this or can't have a beer because uh I've got a training tomorrow you know and you get so caught up in that you don't realize that When you go out and do sports, people look at you from the couch and they go like, I might go for a run tomorrow.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then somebody will post something like, you got me off, you got me off the couch. Like I haven't run in like months. That's cool. And you're like, wow. Like, you know, you actually help somebody to get off the couch and go for a job because you inspired them and you felt like, Oh, I want to get, you know, I want to do something.

And I felt like the Olympics and the sports really helps like promote health and wellness. And then that's also the reason why like we want to get into coaching and get Starting a business in sports so we can, you know, get people out the door, you know, off the couch and out the door. Yeah. And that changes, I find like that yields the biggest change I get.

If I don't do sports for a couple of days, I could become an absolute douche. Like I, like I can see it, like in vacation, I become like a sloth and I don't want to like become lazy and I become like edgy and I'm like, why, why am I becoming this person? And I'm like, okay, because I'm not getting like, you get so used to the endorphins and so used to.

Being active that when you stop or you get sick for like two weeks, you feel like absolutely horrible. And so I think it's that, like that balance of like, you know, everyone, when you're a top athlete, they expect you to perform. So you have always this pressure of, yeah, but don't you want to do this? And don't you want to achieve that?

And don't you want to, you know, I'm like, yes, like those are part of it But the journey leading there is the biggest like the biggest part It's like even going to the olympics like I knew This year like the chance of me getting a medal this be realistic was very small Like everyone says i'm going for a medal And i'd be like bro, you're always 40 in the finishing in the 40s and 50s How are you gonna get a medal like let's be realistic, bro You're there like to do your best and to enjoy What's going on?

Because like at the Olympics, like we went there and I'm like, oh, it's like you're like this, you don't see anything. Mm-Hmm. And then afterwards you're like, why did I enjoy any of it? Like, why did I focus so much that I couldn't enjoy anything? And like when I went there, I was like, I did everything I could, but I wasn't being like over the top about it.

Mm-Hmm. I was like looking, and then you would see like the other athletes running, like in the, in the village and then these people doing like weights and those, I'm like, these are like the best athletes in the entire world in one place. Like that's special. Yeah, and it was like in paris like in the city center They were like thousands of people and it was like that environment was just so amazing That's like I just tried to absorb all of that.

Yeah, I knew my result like I swam and I was out the back door On the start of the swim and my ribs were hurting the entire time and i'm like, you know what? Like i'm just here i'm gonna do what I can and try and soak up the environment because in 20 years time That's probably what i'm gonna remember Like i'm not gonna remember if I beat four guys ahead of me on the run I'm, like I can get there I can get to like 37th place.

Yeah, that's great And then I would have burnt my gun so hard that I couldn't enjoy the moment. So It's yeah, I think the moment a lot of the time is worth If you're willing to let it affect you it's worth sometimes more than the result It's the same with like doing media and stuff and things if you're doing the media for the right reason It's a lot more, you know Fulfilling or helping than it is if you just go and you make a super cool short video or whatever That people go.

Oh, wow, that's cool. And they scroll on to the next thing. It's not like the same thing with like with Like my youtube channel, which eventually i'll start working on again. I had to put it on the backside It was just with my hard complications and stuff way too much to manage Yeah, like I didn't realize that it took so many hours in a week and then you're like I post weekly videos and then you cause anxiety because End of the week it has to be out and you haven't filmed anything now you're stressing about it And I'm like I have to cut that out and I have to try and you know Spend energy on things that will make me feel better in the long run and will just bring me more Because more is not always not always the best.

What did you think was the Was there anything like that you think that contributed to you getting to actually where you are and, and the success you've had, whether it's a character trait or, you know, outside help or, you know, what do you think has been the, cause I mean, so many people try to make it as a professional in sport with no matter what sport it is, but very few actually succeed and make it to the top level.

Yeah. I think probably one of the biggest ones probably given talent was like big thing. I mean, my father was a runner and my, my family was super active. And like I grew up, I think in the environment of my family, like very sporty, very outdoorsy. My parents were like, you know, super supportive. I like, if you come from South Africa, if you don't have supporting parents, you're going to be to try and make it is like near impossible.

I find because you need to look after yourself and you need to make your environment like as best as you can. And like we have like the facilities and those things and stuff in South Africa. Like. It's not the best and you need to literally fight for every cent that you're worth and I think that fighting this Is worth a lot.

Yeah like that You can't put a price on because if you want to get somewhere And you realize you have to do everything you need to do to get there You probably have a higher percentage chance of getting there than somebody who's just got everything organized And you're doing it just because you feel like doing it not because you have to do it It's the same like with the endurance runners like in kenya and those things You If they don't come home doing well, if they don't come home with money, the family starves, you know, and if you have that type of mentality that if you don't make it, then you got to go get a job at McDonald's, then you know, extra motivation, your motivation to, to actually get there.

And I think that's the one thing like when I, when, when I grew up, I mean, I think when I was like in, when I was a early teenager, when I was 12, 13, I already drew like the Olympic rings when I was at school. When I was like. That's I want to go to the olympics when I was like 12 That's um at school. Uh and like through school like I was good at track and field like running and stuff and things I was like Like a good runner already at school and I had like the talent and I was like, oh maybe i'll try track and field like 800 1500 was my thing and I went to like national champs for for track and field um, and then I was like good but not the best and then I did mountain biking and then I was like Became national champion mountain biking.

And I was like really like trying to figure out where I'd fit in and what the sport would do for me. And triathlon was really like a massive challenge and I knew something that could be possible. Um, and yeah, I think that, that, that drive then of knowing that this is like a make or break scenario. Like if I don't make this, then, then I need to go and do something else.

Um, so I need to like figure out how to get sponsors. Like, How can I fulfill the sponsor contracts? How do I keep them as sponsors? How do you know, how do I sell myself? Like all those things came into like almost like a business idea. I mean, it was never written down, but it was like, I knew that these things needed to be done in order for me to become successful because no one was going to go and be like, here we go.

Here's all the money. Here's all the stuff off you go. Like I think when my parents sent me like to, when I was like 18 or something, I got my parents. Sent me this slide and I literally had cash, no credit card, no cell phone. Came to Germany, 18 year old kid, sleeping in like a school hostel. Like I was like, okay, I need to, I need to try and make this happen.

You know, and I think when I was 18 already, I had already, I went to like a second division Bundesliga race, which the Germans have got like a racing league that you can race all year. And like the city has massive sponsors and they pay the athletes start money to pitch up everything. All the expenses are covered.

And I went there and I was like, Wow. This is massive. And the guy's like, yeah, but this is only second division. There's still one more division up. My brain was like exploded because I went there and they were like 400 kids doing this one race under 18. And I'm like, I hadn't raced against so many kids before.

So I looked and I'm like, wow, this, the sport is so much bigger than I thought it was. Like I didn't. And back then when I was 18, it wasn't like you could go online and find that type of stuff. Um, and so I think that spark was like the thing like, okay, you're, you know, This is possible and I could make like a career out of it and I think that's the that's the bell for dinner Oh, really?

Okay, it could be yeah, that's uh, well, that's a good place to end That was that was the end anyway Um, dude, thanks so much for yeah for making the time coming on It's been uh, really cool to have a like a catch up and honestly, I found out a lot about your career and uh I mean, hopefully we were chatting about making a difference.

I mean, uh, that's why partly why I started the podcast. I'm hoping that, you know, having conversations with people like yourself, uh, you know, would hopefully inspire people to chase a dream and, uh, you know, push through the hard times. Yeah, I know. I hope it can. Yeah. I mean, I'm not, as I said, I'm not the biggest podcast fan, but when it comes to the right case in the right place, then, you know, definitely.

And I think, you know, if, if, If I can or we can inspire people, uh, you know, to get off the couch, to go and do your local park run, to go and run around the block, whatever it is, uh, to make people feel better, then, uh, yeah, I think we're doing, we're doing something good. Do a little clap to sync the audio.

That was iconic.